# Supreme Court \[declines to hear\] same sex marriage cases.\[plus further developments (Ed.)\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544 "2014-10-06T13:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/141 "2014-10-08T18:45:40Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > As for what that good that would accomplish, Chesterton points out in one of his essays that the whole reason we (used to) revere and honour marriage is precisely because it was permanent, and when you take away the permanence you also take away what gives (or gave) marriage much of its meaning. I’ve always wondered why those people thought any idiot kid or moron should be able to marry so easily if it should be permanent. If the barrier to divorce is high, they should make marriage just as high. What if couples must know each other for a few years, they must be examined to be compatible, they must live together a while, and take quizzes on what they know about each other before they can marry? Would these people be ok with that? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/142 "2014-10-08T20:16:33Z")
Picking up on a previously neglected point: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > There’s no such thing as “gay divorce”; it’s just a divorce. Just like there is no such thing as “gay marriage”; it’s just a marriage. But if there’s no gay divorce, how can there be gay divorcees? Hmm? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/143 "2014-10-08T22:11:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Liberal: We must not make marriage about permanence. We must allow no-fault divorce! > Conservative: This will change the fundamental definition of marriage! > Liberal: No, it won’t. It just lets unhappy people a way to get out. Other conservative: Actually, no-fault divorce has existed for [thousands of years](http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/560110/jewish/The-Husbands-Grounds-for-Divorce.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/144 "2014-10-08T22:21:29Z")
So, we’re back to 26 states apparently. Justice Kennedy said he didn’t mean to include Nevada in his stay order, because they didn’t ask for one. It’s not clear when Nevada will start issuing licenses now, but probably tomorrow if not today. What a wild week! ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/145 "2014-10-08T22:27:19Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > So, we’re back to 26 states apparently. Justice Kennedy said he didn’t mean to include Nevada in his stay order, because they didn’t ask for one. It’s not clear when Nevada will start issuing licenses now, but probably tomorrow if not today. What a wild week! I was preparing my update while \*\*Greg Charles \*\*posted, so for now I’ll just add the [cite](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SUPREME_COURT_GAY_MARRIAGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-08-15-51-39) for Justice Kennedy’s clarification. Stayed tuned for further developments! ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/146 "2014-10-09T04:44:02Z")
Does anyone want to chime in on what in the hell is going on in the Supreme Court? If they intended to let the process play out, what was the purpose in issuing the stays in Virginia and Utah last year? Okay, maybe they hadn’t made up their minds yet. So, what is the purpose of THIS stay in Idaho? Could states in other circuits that were (fortunate/unfortunate depending on your view) enough to not have been in the forefront of the debate be able to retain SSM bans until next year at the very least? What sort of jurisprudence either (again depending on your view) denies a fundamental right or restricts the traditional power of a state only based upon throwing a dart at the map of the United States and seeing where it hits? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/147 "2014-10-09T05:38:15Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Does anyone want to chime in on what in the hell is going on in the Supreme Court? Well, you’re the lawyer; you tell us. 😃 My guess is Kennedy issued the stay in Idaho because they asked for it. Nevada didn’t thus his later clarification. I suspect there is some rather vigorous debating going on among the Nine and we aren’t likely to know what it is about for some time. Given how things have gone this week, unless Idaho comes up with some new and unique argument against SSM, I expect the stay to be lifted pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/148 "2014-10-09T05:46:35Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Banning divorce entirely, wouldn’t 'force [anyone] to stay together." Separation is always a possibility, and has been for centuries. What used to be the case, back in the day, is that you would not have the right to _remarry_, as long as your first spouse was living. > > Hell, if remarriage was banned you could even shack up with anyone you liked, you just wouldn’t be able to call it a marriage. And of course you could continue living together with your spouse and banging your paramour on the side. That happens in Japan, or rather used to happen if one of the parties refused to agree to the divorce. If there was one party which was clearly wrong, then the courts would grant a divorce, but not for things such as incompatibility or if you just picked someone who was nuts. Naturally, it has all of the negative consequences one can imagine. People are separated from their spouses for decades, and run into all of the problems with gay couples who are not allowed to be married have, including issues with the children have have, decisions on funerals, etc., etc. A few years back the Japans courts ruled that it really was overly strict to forbid divorces and so they allow it if the parties have been separated for a “long time.” > [@](#): > > As for what that good that would accomplish, Chesterton points out in one of his essays that the whole reason we (used to) revere and honour marriage is precisely because it was permanent, and when you take away the permanence you also take away what gives (or gave) marriage much of its meaning. Yes, history has shown that people have always revered and honored marriage, which is why the 10 commandments never mentioned anything about coveting the neighbor’s wife. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I’ve always wondered why those people thought any idiot kid or moron should be able to marry so easily if it should be permanent. If the barrier to divorce is high, they should make marriage just as high. What if couples must know each other for a few years, they must be examined to be compatible, they must live together a while, and take quizzes on what they know about each other before they can marry? Would these people be ok with that? My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/149 "2014-10-09T05:54:32Z")
So, now CNN is reporting that Nevada has asked for a stay and Kennedy is considering it. It would be funny if he denied their actual request now, after granting it by accident before they even made it. Still would it be any more bizarre than the rest of this week’s events. [story here](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/politics/scotus-same-sex-marriage/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/150 "2014-10-09T14:11:58Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Chesterton points out in one of his essays that the whole reason we (used to) revere and honour marriage is precisely because it was permanent Yeah, that’s why we don’t bother to honor veterans unless they die in uniform, and shrug off “Buzz Who?” who hasn’t been in space (or punched out a conspiracy-theory jackass) for years. Oh. Wait. That’s not how people behave at all… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/151 "2014-10-09T14:35:14Z")
Wait, what precisely is Kennedy staying? “Pretend that our lack of action didn’t actually happen”? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/152 "2014-10-09T14:52:54Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > So, now CNN is reporting that Nevada has asked for a stay and Kennedy is considering it. It would be funny if he denied their actual request now, after granting it by accident before they even made it. Still would it be any more bizarre than the rest of this week’s events. > > [story here](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/politics/scotus-same-sex-marriage/index.html) This is somewhat incorrect. The state of Nevada has not asked for a stay. As I’ve written previously, both Gov. Sandoval and AG Cortez Masto have stated publicly that the state will no longer pursue any defense of our now-former amendment. The motion was filed by the Coalition for the Protection of Marriage. [Cite. > [@](#): > > Nevada state officials indicated Tuesday they would not challenge the 9th Circuit Court’s decision. > > But later Wednesday, the Nevada group supporting the state’s ban on gay marriage, the Coalition for the Protection of Marriage, filed for a stay in the Nevada case, and asked that the court’s mandate finalizing its ruling to allow gay marriage be rescinded. > > In response to that request, the 9th Circuit panel asked all parties in the Nevada case, including state officials, to respond to the coalition’s motion by 5 p.m. Thursday. ]([Las Vegas News | Breaking News & Headlines | Las Vegas Review-Journal](http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/same-sex-marriages-delayed-again-vegas)) I can’t even see how the group has any standing at all in the case, but since the court seems to have accepted their motion, I expect the 9th Circuit to quickly demolish any arguments they put forth and tell the state in no uncertain terms to stop fucking around and start marrying people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/153 "2014-10-09T15:31:45Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I think that it will take a 1964-level drubbing, and even that might not be enough. Isn’t 1964 arguably when Republicans started to abandon sanity, ie they moved to embrace southern bible-thumping bigots as an election strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/154 "2014-10-09T15:43:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Isn’t 1964 arguably when Republicans started to abandon sanity, ie they moved to embrace southern bible-thumping bigots as an election strategy. I agree with this (although it was before I was born). But I always hasten to point out that progressive and moderate members of the GOP persisted well through the 1980s. Reagan courted the religious right more than any previous GOP president. But It wasn’t until the Gingrich “revolution” that the sane component of the party was truly marginalized, eventually to all but vanish. Barry Goldwater, 1994: “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.” And that’s the GOP we have today. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/155 "2014-10-09T15:44:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > both Gov. Sandoval and AG Cortez Masto have stated publicly that the state will no longer pursue any defense of our now-former amendment. I suspect most of the remaining states will drop their resistance as well - right after Election Day. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/156 "2014-10-09T15:50:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, what precisely is Kennedy staying? “Pretend that our lack of action didn’t actually happen”? Kennedy might have been the only one to want to hear the cases from before so it might not have been _his_ lack of action. I think that he’s just giving everyone a fair shot to state their case. The ID side has until the end of today to present their case. NV might have another day. NV is a no brainer because of standing. ID could get a little interesting but they are just delaying the inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/157 "2014-10-09T15:52:31Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I agree with this (although it was before I was born). But I always hasten to point out that progressive and moderate members of the GOP persisted well through the 1980s. Reagan courted the religious right more than any previous GOP president. But It wasn’t until the Gingrich “revolution” that the sane component of the party was truly marginalized, eventually to all but vanish. This. If Richard Nixon returned, the modern GOP would condemn him as an America-hating pinko socialist. (It would be amusing to watch the results of Nixon applying his gutterball political tactics in response, however…) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/158 "2014-10-09T15:57:53Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > This. If Richard Nixon returned, the modern GOP would condemn him as an America-hating pinko socialist. (It would be amusing to watch the results of Nixon applying his gutterball political tactics in response, however…) Creating the Environmental Protection Agency by Executive Order is a clear abuse of power, anti-business and brings this great country one step closer to Socialism. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/159 "2014-10-09T16:54:49Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Creating the Environmental Protection Agency by Executive Order is a clear abuse of power, anti-business and brings this great country one step closer to Socialism. Is this a whoosh? Jeez, you mean business suffers when it can’t abuse the commons in ways that badly harm others? _How awful!_ ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544/160 "2014-10-09T17:07:00Z")
And that wage-price freeze of his? Pure fascism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-declines-to-hear-same-sex-marriage-cases-plus-further-developments-ed/700544.md?page=9)