# Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862 "2022-05-03T01:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/244 "2022-05-03T19:17:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > But I can’t see _any_ party demanding that contraception be banned for everyone. It’s too firmly ingrained in our society now. It won’t be a general law banning all contraceptives. It will be a law banning contraceptives by pretending that they are actually abortifacients. It will be a law that bans certain kinds of contraception, like emergency contraception pills. It will be attempts to make sure contraception is difficult to obtain or making it illegal to sell contraception. It will be laws that forbid insurance coverage of certain kinds of contraception. Never underestimate the religious right’s desire to mandate their religious beliefs. In other news, it saddens me that Supreme Court opinions are more about “politics and elections” than a “Great Debate”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/245 "2022-05-03T19:21:14Z")
Just to remind everyone of the current climate, > A landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling that ensured people have the right to use condoms or other contraceptives and have a broader right to privacy was wrongly decided or infringed on state’s rights, all three Republicans running to be Michigan’s next attorney general said. {…} > **[Michigan GOP AG candidates criticize case that nixed law banning use of birth...](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2022/02/21/michigan-gop-ag-hopefuls-criticize-case-nixed-contraception-ban/6877934001/)** > > The comments come amid a broader national discussion about cases challenging abortion rights and the right to privacy before the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/246 "2022-05-03T19:21:35Z")
Two things: First, as a P&E mod, I want to thank everyone participating in this thread for being respectful and adhering to our rules in discussing this hugely contentious issue. It’s hard, and you’ve all done so well. It’s the very best of the SDMB, IMHO. * * * Second, as a poster: > [@Lancia](#): > > Again, I may be off base here but the abortion debate seems to consistently ignore the actual pregnancy that a woman who cannot have a desired abortion has to go through, as well as any subsequent medical, physical, or psychological effects that pregnancy can have for years to come. Thank you for being one of the first persons in this thread to enumerate some of the actual human damage that will be done with this decision. While I can appreciate discussing the legality of _Roe_ in the abstract and in dispassionate terms, the sad reality of this decision will have far-reaching repercussions for actual people. We are taking away a right that has been enshrined for nearly 50 years. That has never happened in the history of the Court. I think it’s important to remember that we’re not going to stop abortions from happening if _Roe_ is overturned. We’re only going to stop safe access to abortion. That was the whole point of _Roe_. As a child, I remember more than a few delicate discussions between ladies about who among their friends was scheduled to have a “D and C”. I didn’t understand what was meant by this at the time, but it sure was interesting how I never heard about “D and C” procedures after _Roe_ was upheld a few years later. By that time, I did understand what was meant. If _Roe_ is overturned, women are going to die, unwanted children are going to be born. This is not speculative. We need only look at pre-_Roe_ statistics to see the reality. Men are going to be made to pay child support, or find ways to get out of paying it. People who shouldn’t be be married will feel far more pressure to marry. Women who never wanted to be single mothers will become single mothers. And what of the victims of rape and incest? I can think of nothing more savage or cruel than forcing a young woman to bear and in some cases, raise the child of their criminal tormentor. None of this bodes well for a society that thinks of itself as “civilized.” Spend time with any group of women discussing this issue and if they reach a point of trust between them, you will be surprised to learn how many women avail themselves of the protections of _Roe_. It’s a lot more than most people realize. As a practical matter, how much do we want to allow the government to control our bedrooms and our bodies? Will SCOTUS stop at abortion? Can you be stopped from crossing a state line because you may, as adjudged by your resident state, have a nefarious purpose in mind? Will access to birth control be restricted, too? Gay marriage? And I shudder to think where this will leave rights for LGBTQ. These points have been well enumerated in this thread by @Martin_Hyde and others from a legal perspective, but I don’t think they’ve been widely discussed in terms of actual human suffering. It’s a lot. To me, this is what is really at stake. I’m long past child-bearing age and the upending of _Roe_ has no practical effect on me. But I have family members and friends who might be adversely affected by it. That’s reason enough for me to fight to save the protections of _Roe_, in whatever way they may be had. > [@Hamlet](#): > > In other news, it saddens me that Supreme Court opinions are more about “politics and elections” than a “Great Debate”. An important point that should be lost on no one. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/247 "2022-05-03T19:33:14Z")
This is true. If you’re laid up after giving birth, have a toddler, and no one to watch them while you recover, … ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/248 "2022-05-03T19:41:11Z")
Thank _you_ for _that_ post, @Aspenglow . Personally, - My wife is a Nurse Practitioner who worked for about a decade as a women’s healthcare provider at Planned Parenthood. The stories I heard are innumerable, heart-wrenching, and compelling. The simple-minded judgment of the anti-choice crowd is belied by the lives that are touched by unplanned pregnancy; - When I was quite young, and Roe was pretty new law, my grandmother worked as the bookkeeper for the abortion clinic in our city. I worked there on weekends doing filing and such. Because I was so young and seemingly innocuous, I can still remember patients in the waiting room opening up to me. The details are long gone, but the residual is the same: it’s a terrible thing to do to a person who is pregnant – regardless of what led _to_ the pregnancy – to force them to go through with something _so profound,_ and that they simply don’t want. My PP NP wife would probably be the first to tell you that she never met anybody who was **pro-abortion.** But taking away that right is so much worse in so many ways. And there are no end of ripples in that particular pond. The rather reflexive black/white thinking of so many social conservatives has always astonished, perplexed, and dismayed me. > You can’t hate someone whose story you know. — Margaret J. Wheatley Many of these social conservatives, I’m sure, _could,_ but it’d be a worthwhile endeavor for them to seek understanding, regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/249 "2022-05-03T19:49:03Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > As I’ve implied already, I’m really torn on a discussion like this, because I’m viscerally uncomfortable with the idea that the first ruling is considered sacrosanct forevermore. Surely, there must be _some_ decision that’s considered odious or unjust that _stare decisis_ would force to be enshrined as basic legal principle. Apparently, _Brown_ doesn’t count. _Korematsu_? Is the entire principle of _stare decisis_ perfect? It’s cancel culture run amok. I’m no Christopher Columbus fan, but this country named a federal holiday for him 450+ years after he died; now a mere 50 years later the holiday is being called Indigenous People’s Day; his statues are being crated up &/or removed; schools & streets are being renamed away from him. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/250 "2022-05-03T19:51:15Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > > [@Leaper](#): > > > > As I’ve implied already, I’m really torn on a discussion like this, because I’m viscerally uncomfortable with the idea that the first ruling is considered sacrosanct forevermore. Surely, there must be _some_ decision that’s considered odious or unjust that _stare decisis_ would force to be enshrined as basic legal principle. Apparently, _Brown_ doesn’t count. _Korematsu_ ? Is the entire principle of _stare decisis_ perfect? > > It’s cancel culture run amok. > I’m no Christopher Columbus fan, but this country named a federal holiday for him 450+ years after he died; now a mere 50 years later the holiday is being called Indigenous People’s Day; his statues are being crated up &/or removed; schools & streets are being renamed away from him. This … is satire, right? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/251 "2022-05-03T19:51:30Z")
Moderating: > [@Spiderman](#): > > It’s cancel culture run amok. > I’m no Christopher Columbus fan, but this country named a federal holiday for him 450+ years after he died; now a mere 50 years later the holiday is being called Indigenous People’s Day; his statues are being crated up &/or removed; schools & streets are being renamed away from him. This is entirely tangential and in no way related to the subject at hand. Please cease this hijack immediately. There are plenty of other threads where you can raise “cancel culture” concerns or angst about statue removal. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/252 "2022-05-03T20:01:05Z")
One thing that pro-choicers seem to consistently miss about the motives of pro-lifers is that pro-lifers don’t just want abortion gone, they want it gone in a **psychologically satisfying** way - one that gives a thumping sense of justice. Pro-choicers consistently quote stats about how providing after-birth care, or sex ed, or contraception reduces abortion but that misses the whole point - such a “soft” approach gives no **satisfaction** , no sense of justice done. Pro-lifers want the hammer coming down - they want the pleasure of seeing abortionists thrown in jail, etc. _That’s_ what “does it” for them. To use an analogy, it would be like as if one side said “If you paid slave masters a lot of money, they could stop owning slaves” (a terrible analogy from a pro-choice mindset, but one that makes perfect sense to pro-life minds.) Sure, it might end slavery, but it would leave things terribly wanting from a justice/moral/vengeance/righteous-anger standpoint. The abolition movement would never endorse such a policy, it gives the sense of letting wicked people off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/253 "2022-05-03T20:28:00Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Well you’re living in a reality where Obamacare was shut down I guess back when the Supreme Court reviewed it, and that was like 8 years ago now, and I appear to be in a different reality where that has not occurred. To be fair, I think he meant to say (or should have said) that Obamacare _ **could** _ have been shot down, and indeed almost was in 2012, squeaking by in a 5-4 vote and only because John Roberts tried to protect the court from becoming a mockery. Two more attempts were made, as you know – the Act surviving by 6-3 in 2015, and even the frivolous suit that should never even have been heard and should have been unanimously rejected got a 7-2 vote in 2021. Moreover, today’s court is now dominated by wingnuts, and I doubt that Obamacare would survive a well-constructed challenge today. That _ **IS** _ today’s reality, and the evidence is this draft opinion on _Roe v Wade_ which may well become the final ruling. The court has indeed become the purely ideological mockery that Roberts was trying to steer it away from. And that won’t be the end of it. In another thread about the constitutionality of the proposed Texas law banning travel to another state for an abortion, an astute poster noted that a Supreme Court of prior decades (read: any rational court) would pretty clearly have found this to be unconstitutional, but it would probably be upheld by the present gang of nutbars. Because this Court is no longer about the Constitution, but has become a quasi-legislative activist body primarily concerned with implementing far-right ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/254 "2022-05-03T20:33:57Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > t does however, require her to pay the estimated $5000 the average person pays for a normal pregnancy. I’m always puzzled by how folks expect people who genuinely do not have money to pay for a pregnancy they have no choice about. Which just proves this is not about money - if it was, abortions are nearly always a much, much cheaper choice. Unless, of course, you provide no money or medical coverage to the poor, thereby saving all the cost of prenatal care, and just pursue them the rest of their lives for any cost incurred by the delivery (only avoidable if they give birth in their own homes without access to medical care). Also, your $5,000 estimate for “normal pregnancy” is way, way low, especially for someone who may not have any medical coverage at all. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/255 "2022-05-03T20:36:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Icarus](#): > > > > Put another way, 75% of women do not get an abortion in their lifetime, and 99.9% of men do not. > > Don’t underestimate how important the right of women to get abortions is to a lot of men. Without abortion rights, my life would have taken a much different path. Yep. As Maury Povich demonstrated, paternity tests are a thing and a lot more accurate than they were 50 years ago. A man may not care if he knocks up a woman or three… until he’s sued for child support for the next 18 years and can’t get out of it because DNA proves he is the father. Plenty of men are pro-abortion, or at least pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/256 "2022-05-03T20:41:30Z")
Red states can change paternity laws if they become onerous enough. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/257 "2022-05-03T20:42:39Z")
I’ve not read every word in this thread, so forgive me if this has been covered. But there’s one aspect here that confuses me. _Why_ is the Court revisiting Roe now? My (admittedly limited) understanding of how SCOTUS operates is that they rule on cases brought before them, as opposed to making random decisions of their own choosing. Do they routinely re-vote on old cases as well? If not, what triggered a re-vote in this case? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/258 "2022-05-03T20:49:12Z")
Mississippi passed law banning all abortion after something like 15 weeks, because they saw the change in the composition of the Supreme Court and thought it would survive challenge. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/259 "2022-05-03T20:49:49Z")
Which allowed them to revisit Roe and overturn it and Casey (if this draft holds up as is). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/260 "2022-05-03T20:53:15Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Do they routinely re-vote on old cases as well? If not, what triggered a re-vote in this case? Anti-abortion forces have been crafting cases to bring to the Supreme Court that are designed to force the issue. The Court currently has a case where they have to either say the laws (Mississippi I think) are prohibited under Roe v. Wade, or okay because Roe is being overturned. The third option is to rule that Roe remains good law, but the statute isn’t in conflict. But that is hard to do with some of these recent laws. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/261 "2022-05-03T20:56:05Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I wonder how many republican women say they’re pro-life feeling safe doing so bc they feel there’s no actual chance Roe would get overturned; but then faced with an actual threat will secretly vote Dem at the polls? They’ll keep voting R. They’re too stupid to imagine they or their daughters might ever get a fatal or unwanted pregnancy. They hate Dems too much to think very deeply about any of this. If they weren’t simpletons, we wouldn’t be in this position. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/262 "2022-05-03T21:00:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > It’s because the USA, nearly alone in modern nations … Which is why the USA today has so much in common with ancient countries and civilisations. Why, f’sure there’s barely been a idea worth having since September 1787. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Yes, as long as you don’t count … American exceptionalism runs deep. Indeed, it is because the USA is unique in being named the United States of America that you cannot apply there any solutions resolutions and societal improvements which work in “England & Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, India, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, several African countries, several Caribbean countries;” etc. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/263 "2022-05-03T21:27:14Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It will be attempts to make sure contraception is difficult to obtain or making it illegal to sell contraception. It will be laws that forbid insurance coverage of certain kinds of contraception. How likely do you think that there will be age restrictions on buying condoms? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=14)