# Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862 "2022-05-03T01:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/524 "2022-05-06T16:25:00Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I assume Alito - and the majority - feel the same about - say - the personhood of corporations? šŸ™„ So if GE closes a division, is that murder? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/525 "2022-05-06T16:28:15Z")
šŸ˜‰ Or at least self mutilation! ---
**Author:** ![Drsunflower1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drsunflower1/32/12711_2.png) [@Drsunflower1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drsunflower1)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/526 "2022-05-06T16:32:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I want to see the day when they charge a man with 1,000,000 counts of murder for masturbating [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/bzVHjg3AqIQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Every Sperm is Sacred - Complete") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzVHjg3AqIQ) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/527 "2022-05-06T16:33:35Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Way back when, Patrick Henry, the _Give me liberty or give me death_ guy, refused to participate in the debate for the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights. He was afraid, he said, that future citizens would come to believe those were the only rights they had. > > Someone needs to remind Alito of that. Alito would argue that even if there are unenumerated rights, then it is up to state governments to decide what those rights are, not the U.S. Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/528 "2022-05-06T16:40:57Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > And, while this part probably isnā€™t answerable unless it went before the court, if a state passed a law (say) that a man (or a woman) MUST do something specific with his body (donate a kidney?) would that necessarily be unconstitutional? How about this: [![](https://i.redd.it/5gypelh3v8x81.jpg) ](https://i.redd.it/5gypelh3v8x81.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/529 "2022-05-06T17:00:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Iā€™m very surprised the Supreme Court is making such a political decision. Really? Seems to me that this particular court was seated specifically to make this very decision. What surprises me is that anybody is surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/530 "2022-05-06T17:36:16Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Iā€™m not sure I will phrase this question correctly, and if I give off the wrong vibe Iā€™ll ask forgiveness in advance: > > Something I think about is this: Is there any other case where US law forces a person (especially if it were a man) to do a certain thing with his body? Iā€™m struggling to come up with something that illustrates what Iā€™m asking, but something like having a tumor removed (or NOT having a tumor removed), or forcing a man to impregnate his wife- anything that would be even remotely analogous to forcing a woman to give birth? > > And, while this part probably isnā€™t answerable unless it went before the court, if a state passed a law (say) that a man (or a woman) MUST do something specific with his body (donate a kidney?) would that necessarily be unconstitutional? > > I know the question as written is ham-fisted, but I hope you get what Iā€™m trying to ask. Surely if thereā€™s nothing else even remotely similar to forcing a woman to have a baby thatā€™s got to count for something? The closest cases that may answer your question are, in my estimation, Supreme Court cases [Cruzan](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/497/261/), [Rochin](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/342/165/) and [Winston v. Lee](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/470/753/). In Cruzan, the parents of a woman in a persistent vegetative state wanted to follow her wishes and remove the medical interventions that kept her body alive. In finding that they should be allowed to, the Court, quoting earlier caselaw, stated: ā€œā€[n]o right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded by the common law, than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law." and "ā€œEvery human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body, and a surgeon who performs an operation without his patientā€™s consent commits an assault, for which he is liable in damages.ā€ They concluded the 14th Amendment contained a right to refuse medical treatment. In Rochin, when police broke in his house to investigate illegal drug use, Rochin swallowed a couple of unidentified pills that were on the bedside table. The police ordered the doctor to pump his stomach to get the pills out as evidence. The Supreme Court found that the police activity ā€œshocks the conscienceā€ and violated the Due Process Clause. And in Winston, the Supreme Court held that the state cannot require a defendant to undergo surgery to remove a bullet for evidence. The Court held that ''A compelled surgical intrusion into an individualā€™s body for evidence implicates expectations of privacy and security of such magnitude that the intrusion may be ā€œunreasonableā€ even if likely to produce evidence of a crime". (although Winston relied more on the 4th Amendment than the Due Process Clause). ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/531 "2022-05-06T17:39:57Z")
I heard those fences have been up for weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/532 "2022-05-06T17:53:58Z")
Why would they be up before this? (really asking) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/533 "2022-05-06T17:55:47Z")
After 1/6, why not? (Iā€™ll see if I can dig up where I saw this later.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/534 "2022-05-06T17:57:43Z")
Cuz it has been 16 months since that happened and I assume the rabble had left. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/535 "2022-05-06T18:30:22Z")
I heard it was because of the guy that recently set himself on fire over climate inaction. Was on Twitter, so grain of saltā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/536 "2022-05-06T19:36:30Z")
Does it seem odd that Alitoā€™s opinion is all about the motherā€™s rights, and whether or not there is such a thing as a right to privacy ā€“ but never addresses the question as to whether or not a fetus has any rights that the state is bound to respect? it seems like if the court had addressed that question, the right to privacy would be moot\* If the fetus has no rights then it doesnā€™t matter what the mother does. if it does, then the state is obligated to respect those rights and disregard the motherā€™s. \*and this is the big difference between Roe, and Loving, Obergefell, Griswold. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/537 "2022-05-06T20:01:17Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Does it seem odd that Alitoā€™s opinion is all about the motherā€™s rights, and whether or not there is such a thing as a right to privacy ā€“ but never addresses the question as to whether or not a fetus has any rights that the state is bound to respect? > > it seems like if the court had addressed that question, the right to privacy would be moot\* If the fetus has no rights then it doesnā€™t matter what the mother does. if it does, then the state is obligated to respect those rights and disregard the motherā€™s. > > \*and this is the big difference between Roe, and Loving, Obergefell, Griswold. Itā€™s not a civil issue between the fetus and the mother, which might require a balancing of their rights, itā€™s the Stateā€™s interest in protecting the fetus that is weighed against the apparently non-fundamental right of the woman to her bodily integrity and medical decision-making. Alito says: " Roe and Casey each struck a particular balance between the interests of a woman who wants an abortion and the interests of what they termed ā€œpotential life.ā€ But the people of the various States may evaluate those interests differently. In some States, voters may beĀ­lieve that the abortion right should be more even more exĀ­tensive than the right that Roe and Casey recognized. VotĀ­ers in other States may wish to impose tight restrictions based on their belief that abortion destroys an ā€œunborn huĀ­man being.ā€ Our NaĀ­tionā€™s historical understanding of ordered liberty does not prevent the peopleā€™s elected representatives from deciding how abortion should be regulated." ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/538 "2022-05-06T20:03:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > if it does, then the state is obligated to respect those rights and disregard the motherā€™s. That sounds a bit extreme. Just because an entity is considered a person with rights doesnā€™t automatically confer on that entity the right to live in another personā€™s body. For example, you canā€™t require somebody else to donate a kidney to you, even if youā€™ll die if you donā€™t get a kidney. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/539 "2022-05-06T20:13:50Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Really? Seems to me that this particular court was seated specifically to make this very decision. Certainly **Kavanaugh,** & **Barrett,** were, they were handpicked just for this. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/540 "2022-05-06T20:44:03Z")
ā€œThe ruling does not make abortion illegal, it leaves it up to the States. ā€œ ā€œThe overwhelming majority of Americans are pro-choiceā€ Assuming both statements are true, whatā€™s the problem? Let the states make their own laws regarding abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/541 "2022-05-06T20:45:56Z")
The states arenā€™t people. What about the actual people who in each state might or not be in jeopardy of losing their rights? You donā€™t see a problem there? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/542 "2022-05-06T20:46:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Wheelz](#): > > > > Really? Seems to me that this particular court was seated specifically to make this very decision. > > Certainly **Kavanaugh,** & **Barrett,** were, they were handpicked just for this. Not just Roe, but also to overturn Establishment Clause and Free Exercise caselaw to expand the Christian theocracy, and to overturn Obergefell (same sex marriage) and Lawrence (same sex sexual relations). Theyā€™re hitting for the cycle. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/543 "2022-05-06T20:48:10Z")
Alito would say that they canā€™t lose rights that they never had. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=28)