# Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862 "2022-05-03T01:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/744 "2022-05-12T05:32:42Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > No. It is whether the federal courts can prevent a State from interfering with a woman’s personal medical decision. How is that different from what I said? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/745 "2022-05-12T05:35:09Z")
A woman can have free will and autonomy even if the federal courts are powerless to prevent a State from criminalizing abortion, specifically, if the State does not criminalize abortion, or if the woman has no interest in obtaining an abortion. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/746 "2022-05-12T09:14:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who said anything about _“rules”?_ > > I am talking _moral a_ nd _ethical_ responsibility. > > Or are we no better than the Westboro Baptist Church? Is it moral and ethical to _not_ protest a ruling that will lead to literal death and substantial suffering for hundreds of thousands of people? This is not an academic dispute over some legal niceties. This is something that will materially hurt a LOT of people, and is being done on a blatantly partisan basis. It is not the protesters, generally speaking, who have lost the moral high ground. Conversely, the WBC protest random things for reasons that are insane and for the sole purpose of upsetting people and getting press coverage. You can keep apple-and-oranging all you like but it won’t make the cases equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/747 "2022-05-12T09:24:02Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > A woman can have free will and autonomy even if the federal courts are powerless to prevent a State from criminalizing abortion, specifically, if the State does not criminalize abortion, or if the woman has no interest in obtaining an abortion. Can a state criminalize other medical procedures? Could a state ban hysterectomies? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/748 "2022-05-12T10:39:25Z")
We don’t have to worry about having the moral high ground over the WBC. Republicans are literally threatening election officials here in Colorado. Pro-choice advocates with chalk (OMG) don’t have to worry about shit. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/749 "2022-05-12T12:22:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Can a state criminalize other medical procedures? Could a state ban hysterectomies? It seems like many procedures are only allowed if they are medically necessary. For example, you can have your pancreas removed if it’s causing a serious health risk, but not if you just wanted it out for personal preferences. The state could probably make discretionary hysterectomies illegal, but not ban hysterectomies in all cases since sometimes the person may die if they don’t get a hysterectomy. Along those lines, I don’t think it would be possible to make abortion prohibited in all cases since sometimes it’s medically necessary to save the mother’s life. Theoretically they could, but the law wouldn’t last very long after the first person died because a problematic embryo wasn’t allowed to be removed. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/750 "2022-05-12T13:36:53Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > It seems like many procedures are only allowed if they are medically necessary. For example, you can have your pancreas removed if it’s causing a serious health risk, but not if you just wanted it out for personal preferences. Is that a state law, or just medical ethics? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/751 "2022-05-12T13:43:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Is that a state law, or just medical ethics? Yeah, I was wondering that too. I can’t find any law that says that you can’t have a healthy organ removed. OTOH, you aren’t likely to find a doctor that will do so. As far as unnecessary medical procedures, the medical industry is rife with those, though it is usually more a matter of profit for the medical practice, rather than a demand of the patient. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/752 "2022-05-12T13:58:16Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > So Roe is intrinsically linked to a decision from a few years earlier called Griswold. Griswold dealt with a Connecticut law that made birth control medication generally unavailable to most people. Griswold basically held that the right to privacy, which existed and has precedent prior to this, specifically applied to intimate relations. This essentially meant that contraception could not be banned by the government. The logic in Griswold also has a lot of applicability to Roe, and was an underpinning of Roe. It also was the underpinning of Lawrence v Texas which struck down criminalizing gay sex. Lawrence only came down in 2003 which was a big time gap, but a big part of that is virtually all States had stopped enforcing sodomy laws some decades prior. Lawrence was essentially “arranged” to create a test case to get them **explicitly** struck down Thank you that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/753 "2022-05-12T13:58:20Z")
I’m not sure of the specific laws, but I’m pretty confident that if a 16-year-old got a doctor to remove their pancreas just because they asked, the doctor would lose their license, get sued, and would face some kind of criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/754 "2022-05-12T13:59:00Z")
“Laws” like that I think are more covered by regulations promulgated by medical boards and such–I’m not super familiar with the specifics, but I think doctors basically can’t do things to a patient that they know will cause the patient harm and that serves no medical purpose. This is one reason the people with the weird body dysmorphias where they “think” one of their legs isn’t “real” and desperately want the leg removed, can’t get those amputations done in the United States. I think they go to Mexico (I think that is such a rare thing we’re talking like less than 5 people a year.) > [@Gyrate](#): > > Is it moral and ethical to _not_ protest a ruling that will lead to literal death and substantial suffering for hundreds of thousands of people? This is not an academic dispute over some legal niceties. This is something that will materially hurt a LOT of people, and is being done on a blatantly partisan basis. It is not the protesters, generally speaking, who have lost the moral high ground. Right, so I 100% think that there are ways to protest at someone’s house that “cross an ethical line”, you shouldn’t terrorize someone, shouldn’t stay up all night blaring loud music / noise, you shouldn’t impede someone’s ability to enter and exit their home. But being on a public street in front of their house expressing displeasure with their action? I can certainly understand why that person **won’t like that you’re doing that** , but that alone simply is not unethical, and the person trying to compare it to WBC activities is stretching credulity. I know Verizon’s union used to protest outside their CEO’s mansion in New Jersey and I don’t remember anyone saying that was the end of Western civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/755 "2022-05-12T15:12:31Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > For example, you can have your pancreas removed if it’s causing a serious health risk, but not if you just wanted it out for personal preferences. I do not think there is any law that prevents you from having your pancreas removed. I doubt you could find a doctor willing to do that just because you wanted to but, in theory, one could. Maybe a medical ethics board would get after a doctor who did that surgery but legally…I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/756 "2022-05-12T15:17:04Z")
Just as a comment, today is the first Justices’ meeting since the leak. So it’s going to be a very heated or a freezingly chilly environment. It’s members-only and by protocol, Barrett is in charge of taking the minute. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/757 "2022-05-12T15:58:26Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > So it’s going to be a very heated or a freezingly chilly environment. Or it will be: [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/411/964/9b5.jpg) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/411/964/9b5.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/758 "2022-05-12T18:15:25Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Is it moral and ethical to _not_ protest a ruling that will lead to literal death and substantial suffering for hundreds of thousands of people? Where did I say to not protest? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/759 "2022-05-12T18:20:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Where did I say to not protest? The question was more about where you think it is ok to protest. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/760 "2022-05-12T18:22:29Z")
Not in front of a personal residence where it will annoy the next door neighbors also. They had nothing to do with the opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/761 "2022-05-12T18:24:08Z")
As has been noted, the supreme court explicitly said it is ok to protest at someone’s house. They made no mention of neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/762 "2022-05-12T18:28:34Z")
No, they said it was LEGAL. Legal is not moral or ethical. Have you not been reading along? You even posted “As has been noted…”, so why are you bring that back up again? It it _legal_ to commit suicide- does that mean it is always a good, ethical and moral thing to do? It is _legal_ for SCOTUS to overturn Roe, isn’t it? Then what is this thread about? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/763 "2022-05-12T18:30:03Z")
You’ve been challenged on the moral/ethical point upthread and have not responded (unless I missed it). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=39)