# Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862 "2022-05-03T01:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/971 "2022-06-24T17:46:31Z")
@Mr_Smashy already posted it, but the opinion seems to rely on (a) “the Constitution doesn’t mention abortion” _and_ (b) “our nation’s history doesn’t tend to point to abortion being a recognized right”. It’s not entirely clear to me why Alito is relying so heavily on history, other than to perhaps provide some demarcation between those rights that are not stated directly in the constitution that he wants to keep protected and those that he does not. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/972 "2022-06-24T17:48:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Cite? You won’t find any justice swearing not to overrule _Roe_ or _Casey_. But they sure did come close in a wink-wink nudge-nudge sort of way. > **[Here’s what the justices in the majority opinion said about Roe during their...](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/06/25/us/abortion-roe-wade-supreme-court/scotus-justices-roe-wade-abortion)** > > They avoided directly stating how they would rule, typically sticking to expressing their belief in the importance of precedent. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/973 "2022-06-24T17:49:59Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/966784/4): > > Here’s the opinion: ‘Nowhere in the Constitution, and nowhere in our nation’s history and tradition, is there such a thing as a right to terminate a pregnancy at any stage’ I’m not sure The Internet is written into the Constitution, nor women in the workplace, nor minority suffrage, but the Court rules on those things. > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Plessy let you Dems continue to abuse blacks (‘separate but equal’) for over 50 years (about the same time between Roe and now) before Brown v Board set things straight. It’s difficult to imagine that on this message board, somebody would still ignore the Southern Strategy, and the fact that – while the party affiliation may have changed – the underlying ideology of the people in question never did. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/974 "2022-06-24T17:50:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > s your contention with the time that was chosen, or the fact that a time was chosen at all? Strictly on a legal standpoint, the latter. That becomes a Court usurping a legislative prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/976 "2022-06-24T17:51:56Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I’m not sure The Internet is written into the Constitution, nor women in the workplace, nor minority suffrage, but the Court rules on those things. All three are addressed by federal law and the Constitution gives the Court jurisdiction over federal law (Article 3 section 2). Minority suffrage is also addressed in the Constitution proper, twice (Amendments XIV and XIX). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/977 "2022-06-24T17:52:36Z")
Prager “U”? Ha! Might as well cite QANON. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/979 "2022-06-24T17:55:38Z")
If you are returning after a long hiatus I recommend reading over the [new rules for Politics and Elections](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-politics-and-elections-january-2020/845727/2). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/980 "2022-06-24T17:56:54Z")
I’m taking issue with Originalism, Max. And the larger point is: the SC has _always_ found a way to tie a novel issue to something that _can_ be found in the Constitution. So, saying “it isn’t in the Constitution, per se” is just horseshit. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/981 "2022-06-24T17:58:27Z")
Moderating: > [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/966784/5): > > I haven’t been to these boards in probably over a decade, but I wanted to check in to see how my favorite leftists are doing after such a devastating blow! > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > It really doesn’t shock me that you live in your bubble and refuse to open your minds. Don’t worry, lots of leftists are like that. If you won’t watch the video that purely talks through facts and numbers, then please don’t humiliate yourself further, and pipe down. > > Sorry that was aimed at iiandyiiii… this is a completely new interface from the last time i was here, pre-Wuhan Flu Welcome back to the boards. You are of course welcome to state your views forcefully here. However, if your intent is simply to troll the libs, then that is not allowed. I’m going to give you a pointed mod note to dial back the snark. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/982 "2022-06-24T17:59:07Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/966784/9): > > that purely talks through facts and numbers The implied notion that “facts and numbers” can’t be used to lie is a bit naive, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/983 "2022-06-24T17:59:18Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > @Mr_Smashy already posted it, but the opinion seems to rely on (a) “the Constitution doesn’t mention abortion” _and_ (b) “our nation’s history doesn’t tend to point to abortion being a recognized right”. Yes, that’s pretty much what I wrote. Point being that he was not claiming that abortion has always been illegal, which is how you originally put it. > [@Jas09](#): > > It’s not entirely clear to me why Alito is relying so heavily on history, other than to perhaps provide some demarcation between those rights that are not stated directly in the constitution that he wants to keep protected and those that he does not. You can attribute whatever sentiment you want to Alito. ISTM there’s a valid basis for distinguishing between something which has always been regarded as a fundamental right though not explicitly written and something which has no basis in text or history. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/986 "2022-06-24T18:03:28Z")
And now you guys can draft a proper law. Beg, borrow and steal to get the necessary votes to pass it. Hell, Biden can issue some executive orders to tide you over in the meantime. Roe v. Wade always was a stupid stop-gap while it lasted. Now it is the past and you need proper laws. The (D) folks have to realize they cannot have their cake and eat it to. Call your representative, become a representative: do whatever. Leave this thread as a stern warning against inaction. Judges do not make laws. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/987 "2022-06-24T18:04:05Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > the SC has _always_ found a way to tie a novel issue to something that _can_ be found in the Constitution. > > So, saying “it isn’t in the Constitution, per se” is just horseshit. Well, I mean, that’s a summary. But the opinion is a little more detailed. The straight dope is linked in [post #876](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft/963862/876). _Roe v Wade_ didn’t settle on any specific provision of the Constitution to justify its holding, and _Planned Parenthood v Casey_ didn’t clarify the matter. _Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health_ revisits all of the individual provisions brought up in _Roe_ and _Casey_, and rejects their applicability to abortion. One of those arguments - the main one - was that the due process clause protects fundamental rights and abortion is a fundamental right. The Court did an analysis of the history of the right to abortion and rejected that argument. The State is a semi-sovereign entity, and its laws were passed by the people’s representatives, so the courts give state law a presumption of validity. Which means that a woman (or clinic) wishing to overturn state law due to the Constitution has the burden of convincing the Court that the law is unconstitutional. This court rejected all such arguments, and the law is left standing. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/988 "2022-06-24T18:04:26Z")
I thought the writing was on the wall after the ruling on the right to carry handguns. Obviously the leajed draft ruling had already made clear it was a distinct possibilty, but the ruling on handguns at a time when even some in the GOP had signalled they were open to some gun restictions was clear signal. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/990 "2022-06-24T18:06:17Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > Yes, that’s pretty much what I wrote. Point being that he was not claiming that abortion has always been illegal, which is how you originally put it. Ah, I see the distinction you are making. Here is another quote from the decision: “Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of the States made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy.” That was the particular historical fact I was referencing - one I’m not sure I agree with the import of. > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > ISTM there’s a valid basis for distinguishing between something which has always been regarded as a fundamental right though not explicitly written and something which has no basis in text or history. YMMV. This position pretty obviously puts gay marriage directly in the cross-hairs. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/991 "2022-06-24T18:11:09Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Can anyone summarize the technical legal grounds for the reversal? Is there more to it than “we think _Roe v. Wade_ was pulled out of Harry Blackmun’s ass”? IANAL, but my understanding is (more or less) Roe was pulled out of Blackmun’s ass. The main basis of Roe was that through some very contrived way, the 14th amendment gave us a right to personal privacy. That allowed legalization of a woman asking for bodily manipulation for herself. After 24 weeks or viability, it’s more questionable. What I read of the leaked decision was that no such right exists - that the main logic was pulled out of thin air. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/992 "2022-06-24T18:16:23Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/966784/10): > > Anyway, comparing Prager (facts and data) to Qanon (conspiracy theories) is so over the top that I question the person’s sanity. Just a note, there is plenty of evidence that Prager U is spewing many conspiracies and misinformation ([PragerU - RationalWiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PragerU)), and as one that investigated climate change in the past and saw a few of the Prager U videos on the subject, I have to agree with the critics of Prager U, get better sources than a place that is not even a University. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/993 "2022-06-24T18:17:01Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Ah, I see the distinction you are making. Here is another quote from the decision: “Indeed, when the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted, three quarters of the States made abortion a crime at all stages of pregnancy.” > > That was the particular historical fact I was referencing - one I’m not sure I agree with the import of. It proves that abortion could not possibly have been recognized as a fundamental right at that time. The idea is that abortion legality may have varied over time and place, but it’s something that was considered within the purview of state governments, to ban, restrict, or allow as they saw fit, and not as a fundamental right that was outside of their authority. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/994 "2022-06-24T18:17:27Z")
> **Summary** > > I just watched the video. It’s really about what it _doesn’t_ say. In the troves of fact-based information it excludes, it becomes nothing more than a five-minute long red herring, reminiscent of “If evolution is fact, then why are there still monkeys ?” > > It demonstrates a failure to understand and identify the relevant and important issues. > > I’ll counter your Prager U cite with this one: > > [Southern Strategy | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/southern-strategy) > > It really addresses everything that Prager’s speaker _says_, but – much more importantly – everything that she doesn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/995 "2022-06-24T18:18:04Z")
> [@On another topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/966784/3): > > the Dems shouldn’t have nominated a crook, I guess. Why not? The 'Pubes did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=50)