# Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade (No longer a draft as of 06-24-2022.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 3, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862 "2022-05-03T01:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1481 "2022-07-12T03:24:45Z")
As a matter of constitutional law, I honestly don’t know, but I seriously doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1482 "2022-07-12T12:43:25Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > As a matter of constitutional law (not your personal preferences or whatever), do you believe a State can now criminalize miscarriages? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > As a matter of constitutional law, I honestly don’t know, but I seriously doubt it. But can they define various actions that may harm the fetus (possibly to the point of death) as actions causing an abortion? Let’s say the pregnant person has a glass of wine once a week at dinner (maybe while eating [tuna](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/pregnancy-nutrition/art-20043844)) and loses the pregnancy. Or goes horseback riding, falls and miscarries. You know there are anti-choice absolutists out there writing laws to criminalize those (hell, there are probably laws already that a prosecutor could apply) - what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1483 "2022-07-12T13:59:15Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Let’s say the pregnant person has a glass of wine once a week at dinner (maybe while eating [tuna](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/pregnancy-nutrition/art-20043844)) and loses the pregnancy. Or goes horseback riding, falls and miscarries. These kinds of issues can happen with parents of children as well. In those cases, the parents aren’t prosecuted unless there is some reason they acted negligently. Parents do all sorts of stuff with their kids where accidents have caused death of the children–such as horseback riding, boating, driving, etc.–but the parents aren’t necessarily held liable just because their child died. If a state were to criminalize actions that induced an abortion, they would be ones where it was grossly obvious that the action could harm the fetus. So if a pregnant person participates in bareback bronc riding at the rodeo and the fetus is injured or died, that could be prosecuted since it’s obvious that the activity itself would injure the fetus. But if the pregnant person was doing recreational horseback riding and fell off, that would not since it was accidental. Not really different from if they were riding with their child and fell off. But if they took their child with them on the bucking bronco and the child died, they would likely be prosecuted since that is a very risky behavior. If the state decides personhood begins before birth, then likely the person carrying the fetus could be prosecuted if they acted in a way that could cause obvious harm to the fetus. But like with a child, it would have to be situations where the chance of harm is great rather than any chance of harm. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1484 "2022-07-12T14:26:28Z")
It’s already happening: > **[Miscarriages are already criminalized. Pregnancy rights advocates fear it...](https://www.11alive.com/article/news/national/miscarriages-are-already-criminalized-roe-v-wade/85-7e78facf-b673-4775-8a09-9a45e3a794b2)** > > A study by National Advocates for Pregnant Women study found disparities in arrests of pregnant women. Here are some of their stories. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1485 "2022-07-12T14:29:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > But if the pregnant person was doing recreational horseback riding and fell off, that would not since it was accidental. How would you square this with: [Can you go horseback riding while pregnant? | BabyCenter](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/diet-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-ride-horseback-during-pregnancy_1246863#:~:text=It's%20not%20a%20good%20idea,in%20pregnancy%20can%20loosen%20ligaments). > [@](#): > > It’s not a good idea to go horseback riding while pregnant. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends [avoiding activities](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/health-and-safety/what-activities-should-i-avoid-during-pregnancy_7229) that entail a high risk of falling or abdominal trauma. In addition, hormonal changes in pregnancy can loosen ligaments. And keep in mind that these laws are written by people who value the life of a fetus much more than they value the life of a child that has already been born. They don’t much care if a child falls off a horse and dies. Hell, in anti-choice states, going “horseback riding” may be the new D and C. I expect any miscarriage to be investigated, and anything the mother did that could have contributed to it criminalized. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1486 "2022-07-12T14:38:43Z")
The laws and prosecution would likely be similar to doing activities with children. Young children can also be harmed by vigorous horseback riding, as the shaking movement can injure their brain. I would guess that states which pass those laws could prosecute a pregnant person for horse racing, but not necessarily for recreational horseback riding. If the horse got spooked, started galloping, and caused a miscarriage, then I would also think that would not be able to be prosecuted since it was accidental. But if the person deliberately rode a horse hard and vigorously which caused the fetus to dislodge, that could probably be prosecuted. It would be the same as prosecuting someone for riding in a vigorous manner with in infant that caused brain damage. Or course, the supporters of these laws are passionately irrational, so it’s hard to say for sure what would happen. I guess my reasoning boils down to that the life of the fetus won’t be made more valuable than the life of a child. If someone wouldn’t be prosecuted for a similar action with a child, then I don’t think it would happen with a fetus. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1487 "2022-07-12T14:57:51Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I guess my reasoning boils down to that the life of the fetus won’t be made more valuable than the life of a child. If someone wouldn’t be prosecuted for a similar action with a child, then I don’t think it would happen with a fetus. Oh you sweet summer child. 🙂 These anti-choice lunatics won’t be happy until every single Uterus Carrier is subject to monitoring and scrutiny, up to and including being bubble-wrapped in prenatal prisons, to ensure their sole birthing function is properly guarded. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1488 "2022-07-12T15:02:31Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I guess my reasoning boils down to that the life of the fetus won’t be made more valuable than the life of a child. It already has been. Some of the people who are being refused abortions are themselves children. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1489 "2022-07-12T15:05:28Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Or course, the supporters of these laws are passionately irrational, so it’s hard to say for sure what would happen. That’s the rub right there. It’s been stated before, but every time you think, “Oh, they wouldn’t go _that_ far,” you can rest assured that some legislator somewhere absolutely _would_. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1490 "2022-07-12T15:05:33Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I guess my reasoning boils down to that the life of the fetus won’t be made more valuable than the life of a child. How do you get there? They already consider the life of a embryo or even a blastocyst to be more valuable than the life of a woman, why would they care about a child? Anti-choicers say life begins at conception, then when does life no longer matter? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1491 "2022-07-12T15:34:57Z")
If you can afford horseback riding, the laws don’t apply to you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1492 "2022-07-12T15:36:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > [ ~~—~~ } Anti-choicers say life begins at conception, then when does life no longer matter? After birth and . . . do you have a brown paper bag handy? ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1493 "2022-07-12T16:10:50Z")
I’ll take dead kids for $500, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1494 "2022-07-12T16:12:05Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > If you can afford horseback riding, the laws don’t apply to you. Off topic nitpick: in some rural areas, some fairly poor people have horses or access to somebody’s horses. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1495 "2022-07-12T17:37:54Z")
To some extent yes, but with abortion everything gets a lot more murky. - Accidental deaths of children are rare, while 10-15% of pregnancies that the mother is aware of end in spontaneous miscarriage. - Very few parents want to kill their children, while at least 18% of pregnant women want abortions. - A childs body can be examined to determine cause of death. A spontaneous miscariage may leave little to be examined. So you have many many cases of women with unwanted pregnancies that terminate early with little evidence as to what actually happened. All that’s needed is a zealous DA up for election in a bright red state to pick out the unsympathetic defendants who can’t afford an attorney, suggest plea deals of 5-10 years for voluntary manslaughter as opposed risking a life sentence for infanticide. Then he can sail in to reelection on the boast of how he put X-hunderd child killers in jail. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1496 "2022-07-13T00:10:35Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Among them is that we are creating a society of consequence-free sexual behavior and one that is diminishing the critical values of motherhood and the traditional nuclear family. Women having easy choices, you see, means they might not choose child-bearing. > > Those writers have never gotten over the development of the Pill. Even scarier to me are the _women_ who parrot this line of thinking. I have a cousin who has spent the last few years on social media having a very public meltdown because she reached her mid-20s without finding a man. Her entire identity is wrapped up in getting married and producing babies; after all, this is what women were “made” to do. Her sister, meanwhile, has been sharing very detailed descriptions of her most recent miscarriage. While I applaud her for being so open about her suffering, I also worry for her – and all of her sisters, who are also very prone to miscarriages for some reason. I’m genuinely concerned that, given the political climate in their home state, they could eventually find themselves on the end of a police investigation instead of warm compassion. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1497 "2022-07-13T04:05:14Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > All that’s needed is a zealous DA up for election in a bright red state to pick out the unsympathetic defendants who can’t afford an attorney, suggest plea deals of 5-10 years for voluntary manslaughter as opposed risking a life sentence for infanticide. This of course requires a population that welcomes the criminal prosecution of women for suspected abortions. At the local level a morally backwards politician caters to a morally backwards populace. In defense of humanity I will again reiterate that most homicide laws that encompass abortions specifically exempt the woman herself. ~~I am not aware of a single incident of a woman being criminally prosecuted for her own _miscarriage_ under an abortion law in the entire history of the United States, although the statutory authority may be there in some jurisdictions.~~ (ETA: Apparently wrong on this, [unfortunately](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/chelsea-becker-stillbirth-murder-charges-california.html)) I am aware of [a girl who was prosecuted after shooting herself while 24 weeks pregnant](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-supreme-court/1312806.html). The bullet hit the fetus in its wrist, the hospital surgically removed the fetus and it ultimately died. The courts ruled that the common-law crime of injuring or killing a fetus could not be committed by its own mother, and after examining the statutes threw out the case. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1498 "2022-07-13T04:08:22Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Her entire identity is wrapped up in getting married and producing babies; This reminds me of a neighbour’s teenaged daughter about 40 years ago. She once told me that she didn’t have to study or to do well in school, because she’ll get married and her husband would take care of her. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1499 "2022-07-13T14:41:28Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > she’ll get married and her husband would take care of her. A lot of us were taught that, years ago. It’s a less common assumption now, wasn’t one everybody made even 40 or 60 years ago, and didn’t always work out well for the people who planned their lives by it even 100 years ago; but she didn’t come up with the idea out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862/1500 "2022-07-13T14:47:33Z")
Yes, we were told that is what we _should_ want, and wanting anything different was unnatural and wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-has-overturned-roe-v-wade-no-longer-a-draft-as-of-06-24-2022/963862.md?page=75)