Pot.
Kettle.
Try using nicer arguments than “why are you making shit up.”
The problem with this thread is that people with whom I actually would agree (and have agreed) on the subject are behaving like such assholes that I find myself wanting to oppose them just because they’re jerks.
People wifully misunderstand and misstate Catholic beliefs to score points. That’s a bullshit debating technique (not that this has to be a debate).
People feel free to reveal themselves as bigots.
It’s a waste of time.
Why do Catholic beliefs matter one whit when it comes to this decision?
That’s fucking funny. My problems with the Catholic Church are well earned.
And when faced with the question:
“In a deadly pandemic, is it necessary for large numbers of people to gather together inside and sing?” I’m almost certain I know “WWJD?”
(It’d be a lot like what the Pope did, btw.)
Good question. I assume Crowmanyclouds can answer because he’s been laying down the zingers about Catholic beliefs.
Because the action brought by Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn, claimed that Governor Cuomo was imposing greater restrictions on the Catholic Church in Brooklyn than on purely secular entities.
The case was about Catholic religious practice.
So, yes, Catholic beliefs are relevant to the discussion.
Because any number of people in this thread have issued pronouncements on Catholic belief that are, at best, ignorant, and are actually just bigotry.
You yourself said “hell, Christian dogma says god is everywhere so you can pray at home with all the same force and effect as you can pray in church.” You are clearly unaware of the importance of community worship to Catholics. And of the central nature of the Eucharist. A
You’re also apparently pretty un-curious about it, which is fine. But you come across as ignorant.
I hope actual quotes of this ‘bigotry’ will be forthcoming.
And I’d agree with you (well, without the sarcasm about singing). Clearly I would. What, exactly, have I said in this thread that would lead you to believe otherwise?
Oh no, I’m ‘needling’ the whole fucking Catholic church and its inability to consistently follow the fucking ‘’‘Word of God’’’.
How is that bigotry?
I do not expect you to acknowledge that you are a bigot.
First mistake…nothing about this was aimed at Catholics. Methodists, Presbyterians, Jews, Baptists, Muslims, Seventh Day Adventists and so on were all in the same bucket.
Second mistake…a church is not the same thing as “purely secular entities.” Society will not screech to a halt if people can’t get to church. It will if they can’t get to the supermarket. Further, Christian dogma has it that there is no need for church. You can observe your religion at home just fine. God is everywhere. You can pray anywhere. The bible tells you so.
Third mistake…there are distinct differences between a church service where lots and lots of people gather closely together and are often encouraged to interact as opposed to (say) a liquor store which only allows three people inside at anytime and they all have to social distance.
Fourth and the biggest misunderstanding…as mentioned the first amendment is not a suicide pact.
It ain’t sarcasm. Singing is dangerous when people are gathered together. Have you heard at all about the pandemic?
You’re just plain wrong about this. And I don’t think you’re at all interested in learning anything and correcting your wrong belief, so it’s pointless to explain how you’re wrong.
For Pete’s sake. Catholics do not gather in church on Sundays, or any other day, to sing. If you require proof of this, please be aware that many, perhaps most, Masses do not include any music. That’s not why people (at least Catholics) go to church.
So, giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you knew this, I took your statement about “In a deadly pandemic, is it necessary for large numbers of people to gather together inside and sing?” as sarcasm.
Are you suggesting you cannot worship anywhere but church?
If you were shipwrecked on a deserted island that is the end of your faith?
And again, no one is terminating religious worship in the US with temporary bans. In our modern society you can participate in Zoom meetings and online forums and chat groups. Not quite the same as sitting in church but I am missing how your faith is at risk if you have to avoid that for a few months.
Is your faith really so fragile that not walking in to a church for a few weeks puts it in jeopardy?
Why the fuck are you fighting with me? From the beginning of this thread, I have stated that I wish the bishop hadn’t brough this action, that he should have ordered the doors of every church in the diocese locked, that people should not be gathering indoors, etc., etc.
What, specifically, have I said about the issue at hand that you disagree with?
It really, really seems like you and a few others are piling on someone who actually agrees with you about church closings just because that someone is a churchgoer.
And you are flat-out wrong about your statements about Catholic belief.
So here’s my good-faith effort to answer you:
Attending Mass is an obligation for Catholics. I get that you’re not a Catholic and you don’t believe this, but you should be able to understand it nonetheless. Yes, of course, if one is marooned on a desert island, one isn’t going to Hell for missing Mass. That’s not exactly a trenchant refutation of Catholic doctrine.
The Eucharist is not available to worshippers outside a church setting. There has to be a priest. The Eucharist is incredibly important to Catholics. It’s central to our faith. And there’s a reason the Church describes the Eucharist as a community meal. Community worship is very, very important to Catholics. Just as a minyan is imporant (indeed, as I understand it, a sine qua non for Jewish worship).
I was born and raised catholic. Every sunday Catholics gathered together in church AND sang. Every time. There were books, all in the pews, with the words to the songs.
Absolutely, there’s singing at Sunday Mass. Or most Sunday Masses, anyway. Did you actually think that’s why people were there? That the singing was the point?
Whatever you’re saying here is meaningless. I have to go now, I just remembered that I planned to place my left hand flat on the garage floor, and with a hammer in my right hand, smash all of my left hand fingers one by one. I can’t waste time with this silly discussion with important plans like that. Good luck.