# Supreme Court rules on abortion access and Trump tax returns next week **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 26, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214 "2020-06-26T15:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/101 "2020-07-09T20:00:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’m most amused by the fact that both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh sided with the majority including all the liberals As a Brit I’m not expert on the American judicial system but presuming they knew the vote would be lost 5-4 anyway had they voted with trump, so might they have just sided with the winning side to try to demonstrate (or fool people into thinking) how honest they were? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/102 "2020-07-09T20:07:27Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > As a Brit I’m not expert on the American judicial system but presuming they knew the vote would be lost 5-4 anyway had they voted with trump, so might they have just sided with the winning side to try to demonstrate (or fool people into thinking) how honest they were? It’s a lifetime appointment. They can rule how they want. Some have made an entire career of being assholes (see: Thomas, Scalia). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/103 "2020-07-09T20:11:06Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > As a Brit I’m not expert on the American judicial system but presuming they knew the vote would be lost 5-4 anyway had they voted with trump, so might they have just sided with the winning side to try to demonstrate (or fool people into thinking) how honest they were? Don’t forget they knew that kicking it back down would delay any real decision until after the election. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/104 "2020-07-09T20:11:10Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > As a Brit I’m not expert on the American judicial system but presuming they knew the vote would be lost 5-4 anyway had they voted with trump, so might they have just sided with the winning side to try to demonstrate (or fool people into thinking) how honest they were? I highly doubt it. There is plenty of politics on the court, but none of it is this nakedly Machiavellian. The political differences and similarities among the justices exist alongside other similarities and differences regarding issues like judicial methodology and intellectual temperament. Even when two justices agree on an outcome, they might do so for different reasons, or emphasize different aspects of the case. Also, cases that seem politically very fraught to outsiders often involve very narrow or arcane legal issues, and it’s often the case that these are far more relevant to how the case is decided than the political leanings of the justices. You can sometimes see these issues in the opinions and concurrences and dissents. For example, in one of the cases about Trump’s tax returns, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh agreed with the overall judgment of the majority, but wrote a concurrence explaining that they would have reached a similar result using slightly different reasoning. Also, as QuickSilver says, no-one can fire them, and they can’t be voted out, so there’s no particular need to demonstrate their honesty. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/105 "2020-07-09T20:14:42Z")
Okay makes sense - thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/106 "2020-07-09T21:00:22Z")
All federal judges can be impeached. A judge in FL was impeached and removed and now he serves in Congress. He was elected 4 years after he was removed and he’s been in congress since 1993. > **[Alcee Hastings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcee_Hastings)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Alcee Lamar Hastings (/ˈælsiː/ AL-see; September 5, 1936 – April 6, 2021) was an American politician and judge from the state of Florida. > Hastings was nominated to the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida by President Jimmy Carter in August 1979. He was confirmed by the United States Senate on October 31, 1979. In 1981, after an FBI sting operation, Hastings was charged with conspiracy to solicit a bribe. Following a ... ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/107 "2020-07-09T22:07:03Z")
Yeah, I’m old enough to remember the Impeach Earl Warren bubble among segregation diehards. (Didn’t happen and was never likely to. Anything’s possible, but impeachment of a Justice movements never seem to get much traction.) ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/108 "2020-07-09T22:56:31Z")
He will treat Trump well, if only as a message to the next Republican Presidential candidate… ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/109 "2020-07-09T23:09:22Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > All federal judges can be impeached. In the case of a Supreme Court judge, possible but highly unlikely, especially if only on the grounds of either dissenting on a judgement or voting with the majority. You need a majority of the House plus two-thirds of the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/110 "2020-07-09T23:15:47Z")
Why didn’t the SC ruling address the “Shall provide to Congress on request” clause? Is that another decision they kicked down to the lower courts? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/111 "2020-07-10T01:01:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why didn’t the SC ruling address the “Shall provide to Congress on request” clause? That’s not a Constitutional clause; it’s part of a statute. The IRS is supposed to hand the stuff over if requested by Congress, but Congress has to follow the Constitution in making its requests, and that’s the issue that the Supreme Court was dealing with here. The court said that Congress can only make these sorts of requests in the first place if it’s in pursuit of a valid or legitimate legislative purpose. The question of Congress’s purpose in issuing the subpoenas was central to this case, and is part of the reason that the court sent the case back down. Note, too, that the opinion clearly distinguishes a “valid legislative purpose” from something like a law enforcement purpose. Congress is not an enforcement agency, and it can’t demand the President’s (or anyone else’s) records just to put the President on trial. It has to use the impeachment process if it wants to do that. From the majority opinion: > [@](#): > > Because this power is “justified solely as an adjunct to the > legislative process,” it is subject to several limitations. Id., > at 197. Most importantly, a congressional subpoena is valid > only if it is “related to, and in furtherance of, a legitimate > task of the Congress.” Id., at 187. The subpoena must serve > a “valid legislative purpose,” Quinn v. United States, 349 > U. S. 155, 161 (1955); it must “concern [] a subject on which > legislation ‘could be had,’ ” Eastland v. United States Ser- > vicemen’s Fund, 421 U. S. 491, 506 (1975) (quoting > McGrain, 273 U. S., at 177). > > Furthermore, Congress may not issue a subpoena for the > purpose of “law enforcement,” because “those powers are as- > signed under our Constitution to the Executive and the Ju- > diciary.” Quinn, 349 U. S., at 161. Thus Congress may not > use subpoenas to “try” someone “before [a] committee for > any crime or wrongdoing.” McGrain, 273 U. S., at 179. > Congress has no “‘general’ power to inquire into private af- > fairs and compel disclosures,” id., at 173–174, and “there is > no congressional power to expose for the sake of exposure,” > Watkins, 354 U. S., at 200. “Investigations conducted solely > for the personal aggrandizement of the investigators or to > ‘punish’ those investigated are indefensible.” Id., at 187. > > pp. 11-12 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/112 "2020-07-10T01:12:33Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/113 "2020-07-29T14:06:57Z")
An interesting CNN article on how Justice Kavanaugh tried to sidestep both issues: [Brett Kavanaugh tried to sidestep abortion and Trump financial docs cases | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/29/politics/brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court-abortion-trump-documents/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/114 "2020-07-29T15:16:51Z")
Brett was too busy going to keggers to work on those cases. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/115 "2020-07-29T15:34:37Z")
Is it just me, or does it seem like the Supreme Court is leaking like it never has before. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/116 "2020-07-29T15:36:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > An interesting CNN article on how Justice Kavanaugh tried to sidestep both issues: I was just reading that. If offers a very interesting behind-the-scenes look at the inner workings of the Court that don’t often get written about. Other than the usual attempts mind-reading… “In March, Kavanaugh faced a test of the tension between his conservative bona fides and the **apparent** efforts to revive his reputation among women.” Was Kavanaugh in fact deliberately trying to repair his reputation, or was he simply acting in a manner consistent with his beliefs? “Kavanaugh has not turned his back on the politicians who guaranteed his high court ascension…” To me, there is an implication here, not supported by anything, that Kavanaugh is consciously trying to “look out” for the beliefs of some. Maybe, maybe not. Anyway, continuing on, the article shows Kavanaugh as someone interested in a certain degree of accommodation with the other justices, perhaps not what some would have expected. But it’s way too early to make any kind of predictions as to what he will be like over the long term. I myself wouldn’t mind a drift to “Souterism”, if I may coin a term, such as that exhibited by Justice David Souter, who did not turn out the way conservatives expected. Time will tell, but I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/117 "2020-07-29T15:37:21Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Is it just me, or does it seem like the Supreme Court is leaking like it never has before. This was also a thought I had: “I don’t remember _this_ kind of thing being written about before!” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/118 "2020-07-29T15:41:02Z")
Not just weeks after, that’s for sure. Check out Woodward and Armstrong’s _The Brethren_ and Toobin’s _The Nine_ for very good, more historically-minded peeks behind the scenes at the court. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/119 "2020-07-29T15:52:28Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Toobin’s _The Nine_ I read this, and I concur wholeheartedly. One of the biggest things I took away from this was Toobin’s explanation that the Chief Justice has way less sway over things than I originally thought. Of course his vote means no more than any other justice, but other than “running” the meetings where they all discuss things, and assigning writer’s of opinions, he (hopefully I can edit that pronoun soon) has no more power than the others. I try to no longer to, for example, think of the “Rehnquist court” as anything other than the decisions made when he was CJ, and not as something where he drove a lot of the rulings handed down. Anyway, great book! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214/120 "2020-07-29T16:20:13Z")
Glad you liked it, **FP**. Here’s an interesting article, part of the same CNN series this week as the Kavanaugh article, on the Chief Justice’s role these days: [John Roberts: Inside his surprising streak of liberal wins | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/politics/john-roberts-supreme-court-liberals-daca-second-amendment/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-rules-on-abortion-access-and-trump-tax-returns-next-week/913214.md?page=7)