# Supreme Court says Constitution protects right to carry a gun outside the home **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 23, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692 "2022-06-23T19:03:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/81 "2022-06-24T18:40:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you think that states can or should just ignore this, and other rulings, even going so far as to straight up ban guns? > > That’d be an interesting precedent. No, I don’t think it is wise to ban guns so I don’t support that. But the Supreme Court was never intended to be a super legislature, and it’s questionable if it was intended to have an “ultimate veto” for deciding what is constitutional and what isn’t. This power, never granted in the text of the constitution, has been abused heavily since the 1870s, and has mostly been misused for most of its history. There was a weird period from about the mid 1950s to the mid 1970s where it was abused in a way that made liberals happy, and during that time the court became kind of enshrined as a liberal institutional “good.” Meanwhile the Republicans dutifully worked to take it over and reverse it. The problem is a too powerful court will always be used that way by one side or another. We shouldn’t just ignore all court orders or not have courts at all, but most countries don’t empower a “supreme court” to this degree, and also allow their decisions to frequently be overturned by legislation. The court needs its balls clipped, and has needed them clipped for a long ass time. Frankly a lot could be done by passing legislation reorganizing the Federal courts–we largely organize them based on reforms that (then Chief Justice) Taft advocated for while he was on the bench, and unsurprisingly those reforms gave the court a lot more power in structural ways. Much of that can simply be changed with a little creative legislation, and ceasing to believe things set in place by statute in the early 20th century are written in stone. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/82 "2022-06-24T18:41:34Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > [Here’s one](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3477197-jayapal-conservative-justices-lied-under-oath-about-views-on-roe/). I wrongly assumed that it was common knowledge, especially Kavanaugh’s I was, as it happens, aware of those remarks; I don’t see that any of them are lies. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/83 "2022-06-24T18:43:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > [Here’s one](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3477197-jayapal-conservative-justices-lied-under-oath-about-views-on-roe/). I wrongly assumed that it was common knowledge, especially Kavanaugh’s > > I was, as it happens, aware of those remarks; I don’t see that any of them are lies.  I really don’t know what to tell you then, friend. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > No, I don’t think it is wise to ban guns so I don’t support that. But the Supreme Court was never intended to be a super legislature, and it’s questionable if it was intended to have an “ultimate veto” for deciding what is constitutional and what isn’t. We could have a whole discussion about the pros and cons of judicial supremacy. There are benefits to it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/84 "2022-06-24T18:46:27Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Though as a Canadian I have no personal stake, this Supreme Court seems relatively unconcerned with public opinion or the consequences of its actions. Wait until you see the decisions they’re going to hand down on voting in the next two years. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/85 "2022-06-24T18:57:34Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I don’t know of any despot who thought Hey! Maybe somebody else’s ideas would work better. I don’t know of any democratically elected politicians who said so either. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Would you follow those desires when practically everybody else was telling you no? What do you mean by “practically everybody else”? Are you talking popularity of their decisions? Delegitimizing the court over not following popularity is almost as bad a metric as doing so because you don’t agree with its rulings. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > It is not the job of our leaders to worry more about their personal comfort than about the people of the nation. I’m not sure how you are answering my question there. Are you claiming that being detained and tortured is simply a matter of person comfort? That having political leaders detained and tortured isn’t bad for the people of the nation? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/86 "2022-06-24T19:00:19Z")
**Moderator Note** This thread is about gun rights and the recent Supreme Court decision. Let’s not expand this into the Supreme Court in general, Roe v Wade, etc. Keep the topic focused, please. Feel free to discuss those other issues, just do so in their appropriate threads. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/87 "2022-06-24T19:03:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What do you mean by “practically everybody else”? Are you talking popularity of their decisions? Delegitimizing the court over not following popularity is almost as bad a metric as doing so because you don’t agree with its rulings. Since the Supreme Court only has authority because the people have agreed to let it have that authority, then when only 25% of the people have confidence in the court, it is illegitimate. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure how you are answering my question there. Are you claiming that being detained and tortured is simply a matter of person comfort? That having political leaders detained and tortured isn’t bad for the people of the nation? My answer was that your hypothetical is ridiculous. Arresting and torturing politicians is not part and parcel of defying the court except in the most slippery-slope of arguments. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/88 "2022-06-24T19:09:49Z")
A lot of misinformation in the media and even here. This does not direct concealed carry laws, does not direct states on many aspects of implementing them. This should uncontroversially be a good thing. It does not say they _have_ to give you a license, it says that they can deny for background check reasons, both due to federal law and presumably state policy (for example, some states restrict carry licenses for people with DUIs, and vary in how strongly they apply this policy). It takes capriciousness out of the hands of one or a few law enforcement officers. Such policies have been used in centuries past to deny purchase or carry of firearms to ethnic minorities, poor people, and so on, many times. The law says we can’t discriminate? Great, instead there are “issues with your paperwork” but we know what that means. NYC even had you pay a non-refundable fee to get one! Parallels to voter ID etc are clear. Santa Clara County, California’s outgoing sheriff corruptly solicited bribes for licenses from Apple execs. Interestingly, while Texas Republicans were doing their abortion snitching hijinks awhile back, Kavanaugh in his questioning asked them whether this would apply to Second and First Amendment rights, I don’t think they got the implication. > [@Bullitt](#): > > Is anyone in a may issue state now going to apply? > > I’m considering it (California). I saw one post about someone going through their county’s website and the next available appointment says 2029. I’m presuming it’s a computer algorithm! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/89 "2022-06-24T19:37:26Z")
Considering that 42 states have either Shall Issue permit laws or no permit laws at all and somehow the sky has not fallen, I predict a whole lot of nothing will happen once permit laws are reformed in California, New York et al. The criminals there already carry all the illegal guns they want. About the only uptick in “gun violence” I anticipate is an increase in justified self-defense shootings. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/90 "2022-06-24T19:41:53Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Considering that 42 states have either Shall Issue permit laws or no permit laws at all and somehow the sky has not fallen Nobody is claiming that the sky will fall. Just that people will be shot. > [@Lumpy](#): > > The criminals there already carry all the illegal guns they want. Funny how easy it is for criminals to get guns. Too bad no one is working on that. > [@Lumpy](#): > > About the only uptick in “gun violence” I anticipate is an increase in justified self-defense shootings. Well, sure, as anyone who is holding the gun at the end of a confrontation will obviously be claiming self defense. A confrontation that previously would have ended with hurt feelings and maybe some bruises will now end with bodies on the ground. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/91 "2022-06-24T19:56:25Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > But more and more states are going toward “Constitutional Carry,” which means a (non-prohibited) person can carry a CCW without a license of any kind. I’m in Ohio, and this became law just a few days ago. This is a trend, and I doubt any state will go “backwards” anytime soon. Yeah, and I don’t like that. At the minimum, a simple background check needs to be done. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > (BTW meantime the bipartisan gun legislation that passed the Senate 65-33 including McConnell’s support, just got ZERO Republican votes in the House.) > **[Congress passes bipartisan gun legislation, sending bill to Biden](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-control-law-house-vote/)** > > The bill represents the most significant legislation addressing guns in nearly 30 years. _The bill, called The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, passed the lower chamber by a vote of 234-193, with 14 Republicans joining all the Democrat_s. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Yes. The states can still require carry permits, and those permits can still have heavy regulatory requirements. Just that the states can’t deny a permit because the authorities don’t think you “need” to carry a gun. Yeah. The “may issue” is often corrupt- We are all at least kinda reasonable here, so if you were the authority in a may issue state, which would you allow? 1. I like carrying a gun, in case of a Antifa uprising. 2. I am a diamond merchant, and there have been some fellow merchants killed recently, their diamonds stolen. 3. I have left my abusive husband, and I fear for my life. 4. I have donated large sums to your election campaigns. 5. I am a Hollywood big-shot and the paparazzi have been harassing me. > [@Max\_S](#): > > Strong disagree with **Martin\_Hyde** and **GraysonCarlisle** about states simply disregarding the Supreme Court when they don’t like the decision. If I were President in the face of such a crisis, I would sic the National Guard on such rogue states. Yeah, they would simply ban blacks and gays from voting or holding office. > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Those courts were legitimate and acted on the basis of the law. You’d ignore all recent SCOTUS rulings simply because a handful of “may issue” states will not be “shall issue” states??? > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > It takes capriciousness out of the hands of one or a few law enforcement officers. Such policies have been used in centuries past to deny purchase or carry of firearms to ethnic minorities, poor people, and so on, many times. The law says we can’t discriminate… Santa Clara County, California’s outgoing sheriff corruptly solicited bribes for licenses from Apple execs. Exactly. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Considering that 42 states have either Shall Issue permit laws or no permit laws at all and somehow the sky has not fallen, I predict a whole lot of nothing will happen once permit laws are reformed in California, New York et al. The criminals there already carry all the illegal guns they want. About the only uptick in “gun violence” I anticipate is an increase in justified self-defense shootings. Yes, good points. I was on a penal with some FBI agents, etc some time ago, and this came during break- why do states with open carry laws have NEITHER a significant increase OR decrease in violent crime? The consensus was that criminal activities decrease, but crimes of passion increase. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Funny how easy it is for criminals to get guns. Too bad no one is working on that. The new bipartisan bill does “work on that”. It should cut down on “strawman dealers” the leading source of guns to criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/92 "2022-06-24T20:02:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Well, sure, as anyone who is holding the gun at the end of a confrontation will obviously be claiming self defense. You don’t believe there really is such a thing as a legitimate self-defense shooting, do you? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/93 "2022-06-24T20:08:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > Those courts were legitimate and acted on the basis of the law. > > You’d ignore all recent SCOTUS rulings simply because a handful of “may issue” states will not be “shall issue” states??? I explained my reasoning above. Feel free to read the whole thread. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/94 "2022-06-24T20:11:14Z")
I did. Your reasoning made no sense at all to me. If a Republican congress passes a law you do not like, will you ignore that? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/95 "2022-06-24T20:13:05Z")
Again, you can read the thread if you want to know my reasoning for declaring the court illegitimate. I believe that a mod has asked us to drop that discussion, though. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/96 "2022-06-24T20:15:06Z")
Ah, that debate subject has no business in this thread, so your arguments based on that are specious. However, there is another thread for that debate. And I have read every word. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/97 "2022-06-24T20:17:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > So basically yes, you can still fully ban carry inside defined sensitive spaces. But not in the general public common space. Specifically, New York can’t effectively designate the entire island of Manhattan as a sensitive space. The rest of that section: > But expanding the category of “sensitive places” simply to all places of public congregation that are not isolated from law enforcement defines the category of “sensitive places” far too broadly. Respondents’ argument would in effect exempt cities from the Second Amendment and would eviscerate the general right to publicly carry arms for self-defense that we discuss in detail below. See Part III–B, infra. Put simply, there is no historical basis for New York to effectively declare the island of Manhattan a “sensitive place” simply because it is crowded and protected generally by the New York City Police Department Emphasis on the “historical basis” analysis for those seeking parallels between the _Bruen_ and _Dobbs_ decisions. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/98 "2022-06-24T20:27:34Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > > [@JRDelirious](#): > > > > So basically yes, you can still fully ban carry inside defined sensitive spaces. But not in the general public common space. > > Specifically, New York can’t effectively designate the entire island of Manhattan as a sensitive space. > > ~Max They’re going to try: [NYC Council pushing to expand 'sensitive locations' after SCOTUS gun ruling](https://nypost.com/2022/06/23/nyc-council-pushing-to-expand-sensitive-locations-after-scotus-gun-ruling/) Basically they’re going to do what Washington D.C. did for years after _Heller_: drag their feet as long as they can, and pass law after law in conflict with the ruling that will all have to be appealed and overturned. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/99 "2022-06-24T20:32:30Z")
_Council Speaker Adrienne Adams said she plans to pass a non-binding resolution that would call on Albany to ban guns from all government buildings, schools, hospitals, places of worship, parks, daycares and cemeteries and other facilities — and establish a 1,000 foot buffer around those places where guns would also be banned._ Right, this has been done with child molesters, and it was found that excluded just about the entire city. Which is their plan, of course. Next is $2500 gun safety classes, held every other leap day. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692/100 "2022-06-24T20:35:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Next is $2500 gun safety classes, held every other leap day. 🙄 Oh no, you’ll have to have a diploma from a **police academy** to qualify. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-says-constitution-protects-right-to-carry-a-gun-outside-the-home/966692.md?page=6)