# Supreme court upholds gerrymandered Alabama maps
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [February 8, 2022, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086 "2022-02-08T03:31:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/1 "2022-02-08T03:31:49Z")
> **[Supreme Court restores Alabama’s redistricting plan for 2022](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/07/supreme-court-restores-alabamas-redistricting-plan-00006455)**
>
> The justices split, 5-4, to block a lower court order that said a new map diluted the influence of Black voters.
I don’t understand the legal arguments, but back in 2019 didn’t the supreme court rule that they have no jurisdiction over partisan gerrymandering on the state level?
> **[US Supreme Court Ruling Effectively Ends Wisconsin Gerrymandering Challenge](https://www.wpr.org/us-supreme-court-ruling-effectively-ends-wisconsin-gerrymandering-challenge)**
>
> The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Thursday to reject cases related to partisan gerrymandering, effectively ending a Wisconsin case aimed at legislative maps drawn by GOP lawmakers in 2011.
> The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Thursday that federal courts don’t have the power to decide cases related to partisan gerrymandering, effectively ending a Wisconsin lawsuit against legislative maps drawn by Republicans in 2011.
> The court ruled 5-4 that “partisan gerrymandering claims present political questions beyond the reach of the federal courts,” in an opinion written by Chief Justice John Roberts.
Is there some coherent legal argument for both of these decisions? Because its making me feel the SCOTUS says that partisan gerrymandering isn’t their responsibility when the existing map benefits the republicans, but when overturning a lower court decision helps the republicans then it suddenly is their responsibility.
Is there more to this than just that?
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### Author:  [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/2 "2022-02-08T03:54:01Z")
The distinction-without-difference being made is between gerrymandering to increase the influence of a _political party_ (which SCOTUS says it can’t do anything about), as opposed to gerrymandering to increase the influence of a _racial group,_ which it still theoretically could do something about, but apparently just chooses not to.
The actual reality, of course, is that the Court is controlled by Republican partisans who will twist law and logic however necessary to make sure their side wins.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/3 "2022-02-08T12:56:21Z")
I think @Hamilton usually does a pretty good job explaining the ins and outs of these kinds of decisions.
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### Author:  [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/4 "2022-02-08T15:10:37Z")
This may backfire because two can play that game.
(This is a gifted link)
> **[A ‘Master Class’ in Gerrymandering, This Time Led by N.Y. Democrats](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/02/nyregion/redistricting-gerrymandering-ny.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DPDm4YiOIEGYWP-kDLIrBua9oowy6aT8NANrBqS_Fo1P5aNkphRhOppJTBnoVDIzkwrcj7eFIK6K_3fOJy9y72PC7-If1jxba7slWKb2K7D_PchGl2dAZvvZczfF210XNfxLOSQeJy3dkq2ax2VJ5qVHxXMnnxyvriAxt6P9iFZgiNqVVlHrEEBkyA2IKU-LkCcw5NCFnZTXIZ4Wo06dxUONx_L7-oZld7O5K42eNNfzQueIS5BJQxRJzWlaFpsNPOrR-Oz8m1wJYmBVTwShGJNGQYQCK8lRks5N4&smid=url-share)**
>
> The maps approved by Democrats in the New York State Legislature could lead their party to seize as many as three House seats from Republicans.
Of course, the right wing news outlets are up in arms over how undemocratic the Democrats are being. I say, good for them……if they want to make these rules we’ll be happy to play by them.
You want to gerrymander Alabama, go ahead……we’ll do the same to New York and California. Let’s see who comes out ahead,
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/5 "2022-02-08T15:28:12Z")
California can’t gerrymander, I think they have an independent commission who draws their districts. Ideally that should be a national law, but until there is a national law the democrats unilaterally disarming themselves and picking unbiased districts while the GOP gerrymander puts the democrats at a massive disadvantage. FWIW, states like IL and OR also pushed gerrymandered maps this session. i support that, because unless gerrymandering starts benefitting the democrats and harming the GOP, the SCOTUS will continue to uphold it as legal.
Having said that I think California is currently 42 democrats, 10 republicans in the house (1 seat empty). Had they actually gerrymandered the state it would possibly be 50 democrats, 2 republicans. Thats what I read a gerrymandered CA would look like at least.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/6 "2022-02-08T15:52:54Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> California can’t gerrymander, I think they have an independent commission who draws their districts.
So, theoretically, does New York, these days.
Said commission split right smack down the middle, producing two sets of maps: one of them favoring the Republicans, the other favoring the Democrats. Commission could not come to agreement, which sent the issue back to the legislature.
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### Author:  [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/7 "2022-02-08T15:55:37Z")
Interesting observation from Dave Wasserman yesterday where he noted that the next Congress will probably be a decent reflection of the national vote but will also probably be just as divisive and partisan because of the nastiness baked in by gerrymandering.
I’m glad Dems have refused to unilaterally disarm but the way we handle this process is terrible for the country.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/8 "2022-02-08T16:01:15Z")
agreed, but unless we can pass meaningful voting and gerrymandering reform on the national level, its the best we can do for now.
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### Author:  [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/9 "2022-02-08T16:38:13Z")
There was an underlying principle I’ve heard SCOTUS use before (though I don’ know about the Alabama case): the court should not do things that voting should accomplish. The problem is, voting can’t accomplish it if one of the parties hobbles the voting process.
It was nice of Roberts to cross the aisle on this one, though there really wasn’t any money on the table.
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### Author:  [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/10 "2022-02-08T17:35:04Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#):
>
> This may backfire because two can play that game.
The Court’s decision here isn’t about whether states can gerrymander based on partisanship – the Court has already ruled that’s okey-dokey. So New York isn’t really getting anything out of this decision they didn’t already have.
The Supreme Court’s decision to restore Alabama’s redistricting strikes at one of the pillars of the Voting Rights Act – that minority communities should have the opportunity to elect representatives of their choice. Prior to the VRA, southern states would simply spread black voters across districts so that they could never form a majority. Between Reconstruction and the VRA, almost no African Americans were elected to the House from southern states despite accounting for 30-40% of the population in some states. The remedy in the VRA was to require states to create majority-minority districts that created opportunities for black (and Hispanic and Asian) voters to elect someone they believe represents them. About a quarter of all House seats are majority-minority.
While the decision here is not a final disposition of the case, it’s pretty likely that the Court’s going to trash this requirement. This will remove any limitations on how states gerrymander, and they can serve up as many white, conservative districts as they can manage to devise.
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### Author:  [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/11 "2022-02-08T18:13:43Z")
It appears that the Court is invoking the [McConnell Doctrine](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/07/supreme-court-lets-alabama-use-maps-decried-as-biased-against-black-voters) here; that it’s too close to the election to change the districts. Fucking Kavanaugh must have been laughing his ass off when he signed that one.
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/12 "2022-02-08T20:22:27Z")
At least he was laughing when he sobered up.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [February 8, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/13 "2022-02-08T23:39:40Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#):
>
> You want to gerrymander Alabama, go ahead……we’ll do the same to New York and California. Let’s see who comes out ahead,
AIUI, Republicans would still come out ahead. Because Republicans control more of the legislatures in swing states, such as Wisconsin. They have the red + swing states whereas the Democrats have only the blues.
And as someone else mentioned, California has self-handicapped itself by not doing gerrymandering.
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### Author:  [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/14 "2022-02-09T00:42:04Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#):
>
> California can’t gerrymander, I think they have an independent commission who draws their districts. Ideally that should be a national law, but until there is a national law the democrats unilaterally disarming themselves and picking unbiased districts while the GOP gerrymander puts the democrats at a massive disadvantage.
Now you see why evil will always prevail, because good is dumb.
> [@Thing.Fish](#):
>
> It appears that the Court is invoking the [McConnell Doctrine](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/07/supreme-court-lets-alabama-use-maps-decried-as-biased-against-black-voters) here; that it’s too close to the election to change the districts. Fucking Kavanaugh must have been laughing his ass off when he signed that one.
This is the exact problem that preclearance used to solve.
Alabama honestly didn’t even get that close to the elections that this is anything more than a fig leaf, but without preclearance, the incentive is for states to drag their feet as much as possible so that the court has to say “aw shucks we can’t intervene”.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/15 "2022-02-09T13:35:49Z")
Here’s a gift link to a NY Times op-ed piece about the Alabama ruling:
> **[Opinion | The Supreme Court Has Crossed the Rubicon](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/09/opinion/supreme-court-voting-rights.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DPDm4TiOMNAo6B_EGKfrd7fdY20nGQQ8JbLPoxQ-BzyOAaJU1iSxWz5JuYnZBPawMElbWOZEJklZTcQeJ_tjbwcmiyLOo4ze3h4hzbOmP1UaDd2GkmJglmvcNudgy12nAPwKeTGrV-0oYvzu5hUs4hPUoIbSeOtvbuDBhsap7RPlyHtF5AC6wOUirTnNWc97sAbAxZbFrHR3l-6m0-g8hObJJVZO2sak59J7etxOkZGWdqL4y2BpcuR4Cyl79is7TFqhXk29PrYSuNJHyJ173QLNREwFHz&smid=url-share)**
>
> The voting rights decision is further evidence of an impatient conservative majority.
Linda Greenhouse is not a lawyer, I think, but has spent years covering the ins and outs of the SCOTUS. She’s definitely on the liberal side of the political divide. Anyway, she finds lots of fault with the decision.
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### Author:  [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)
#### Post date: [February 9, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/16 "2022-02-09T17:44:12Z")
Fun Alabama election fact: When Doug Jones defeated Roy Moore statewide in 2017, he won only one of AL’s seven congressional districts.
>
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/17 "2022-02-11T22:46:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> And as someone else mentioned, California has self-handicapped itself
To be fair, who _else_ should one self-handicap?
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### Author:  [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/18 "2022-10-04T13:05:42Z")
Reviving this thread because today the Supreme Court will hear arguments in the challenge to Alabama’s congressional districts. Specifically, the claim is that Alabama’s newly redistricted congressional map violates Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act because it dilutes black voting strength by concentrating black voters in a single district.
The court has likely already tipped their hand that they’ll find for Alabama.
In February, they overturned a lower court’s unanimous ruling that the state had to institute new districts for the 2022 election. The only question is whether they’ll rule for Alabama on narrow procedural grounds or throw out any remaining protections of the VRA. It’s possible that the _Dobbs_ blowback may make the court conservatives hesitant to throw out another long-standing legal principle in the span of a year. But this is also an issue where Roberts is more in line with his conservative colleagues – he wrote the decision removing the “pre-clearance” requirement of the VRA that gutted enforcement of its provisions.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/19 "2022-10-04T13:37:13Z")
> [@flurb](#):
>
> It’s possible that the _Dobbs_ blowback may make the court conservatives hesitant to throw out another long-standing legal principle in the span of a year.
I don’t think anything is stopping this court from trying to remake America into its conservative Christian image.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [October 4, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/supreme-court-upholds-gerrymandered-alabama-maps/959086/20 "2022-10-04T16:53:11Z")
> [@flurb](#):
>
> It’s possible that the _Dobbs_ blowback may make the court conservatives hesitant to throw out another long-standing legal principle in the span of a year
I haven’t seen any evidence that public reaction to Dobb’s has had any affect on them what so ever. Roberts may be concerned about the partisan appearance of his court but he’s in the minority now, and his conservative colleagues seem hell bent on pressing their numerical advantage to reshape the country as much as they can as fast as they can.
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