# Sure, Go Ahead And Smack The Kid: That'll Make Him Behave **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 9, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597 "2005-04-09T23:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/81 "2005-04-11T23:33:47Z")
> [@singlefile](#): > > … my kid knew I would get off the couch… Exactly. Good discipline isn’t about spanking. It’s about responding promptly to misbehavior. It’s about getting off the couch. I can count the number of times I’ve spanked my kids on the fingers of one hand. In our household the only offense that merits a thwack is gross insubordination … ignoring a direct order from a parent, acting sassy, that sort of thing. As a result of their infrequency, the spankings my kids have received cast a very long shadow. They still speak in reverent horror of “the time Daddy spanked us for disobeying at bathtime” and that was one smack to the bottom apiece over a year ago. All other offenses, even ones where they’ve unintentionally endangered themselves, are dealt with either by “speaking sharply” or time out. A good scolding is particularly effective against toddlers – they just don’t have the emotional reserves to maintain defiance in the face of stern parental disapproval. The key, though, is “getting off the couch”. You have to respond swiftly and decisively to challenges to authority. Insubordination is a learned behavior. It’s what you get when you’re inconsistent or unjust in your discipline, and it’s what you get when you get in the habit of saying “no” without backing it up with real punishment. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/82 "2005-04-12T00:14:06Z")
> [@singlefile](#): > > I once saw a child open a freezer and get out a popsicle. His mother told him “No popsicles” The child proceeded to open the wrapper. The mother (from the couch) kept telling him “No” even as he ate the popsicle and threw the stick on the floor. He was two. He is now 18 and in jail. If I told my kid ‘no’ the popsicle would never have left the freezer. Reason being that my kid knew I would get off the couch. There was no reason for them to think I might hit them. There is a huge chasm of difference between spanking and laying on the couch and mildly saying “no” like you don’t mean it. Please tell me that these aren’t the only options that occur to you. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/83 "2005-04-12T00:19:11Z")
> [@stretch](#): > > First, please keep the snark down. I’m not aware of where I was snarky. > [@](#): > > I want to know how Chris learned the bolded part of your quote. In your anecdote, you portray Chris picking this up from your tone of voice. You make it sound as if you expected Chris to just get this. Three year old kids do not just get things—they have to be explained. I never said that he got no parenting whatsoever. Where did he learn to respect others’ feelings? I’m guessing his parents. He has learned a great capacity for love. But I don’t think his parents beat that into him. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/84 "2005-04-12T00:23:29Z")
> [@belladonna](#): > > I believe any parent that sets themself up as their child’s “buddy” is in for a world of trouble down the road. I knew someone was going to say that. I didn’t mean that parents should become buddies to their children. But at the same time, parents and children can learn to love each other and respect each others’ feelings, right? My mother was never (usually) my buddy, she was my mom. And yet still, I felt bad when I wronged her. And that was something I learned when she showed me unconditional love. When she spanked me, I learned nothing but resentment. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/85 "2005-04-12T00:34:30Z")
Me too **tdn** , but that still proves very little. Do we really need another two pages of dueling anecdotes on this? ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/86 "2005-04-12T00:37:40Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > There is a huge chasm of difference between spanking and laying on the couch and mildly saying “no” like you don’t mean it. Please tell me that these aren’t the only options that occur to you. Seeing as how, right in the statement you quoted, “…my kid knew I would get off the couch. **There was no reason for them to think I might hit them**.” I’m actually quite confident they weren’t. on preview… > [@](#): > > When she spanked me, I learned nothing but resentment. When my father spanked me, all three times that I can recall, I learned that there are some things that are so absolutely, positively, over-the-top wrong that they made my father who I adored and who I knew adored me do this thing we both hated. It taught me where the deadline was. Obviously, YMDV, as it tends to do. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/87 "2005-04-12T00:41:31Z")
Now that I think on it, my grandfather only had to spank me once to get me to listen to him. He was a farmer, _huge_ hands. I never ever crossed him again. Stick that in yer…um…anecdote pipe and smoke it? yeah that was really lame ---
**Author:** ![stretch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/88 "2005-04-12T02:07:28Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I never said that he got no parenting whatsoever. Where did he learn to respect others’ feelings? **I’m guessing his parents.** He has learned a great capacity for love. But I don’t think his parents beat that into him. Maybe you weren’t being snarky…taken in context, it seemed that you were. Given you say you weren’t–okay. Let me assure you that I’m not on “the other side” as you thought **Harborwolf** was upthread; perhaps that will improve my credibility. I’m just saying that this particular anecdote doesn’t say what you think it says. It says nothing. If you continue to flesh it out, it might say what you want…but at this point, I’m not that interested. Besides, it seems that you have given the credit for his appropriate behaviour to his parents (see my bolding), when in the original anecdote you seemed to be taking credit for his good behaviour while indicating that his dad was handling the situation incorrectly. IMO, kids need to learn that there are consequences to their actions. Good behaviour = good consequences, bad behaviour = bad consequence. Good and bad are obviously going to depend on so many factors that I can’t begin to list them. I agree with **Farmwoman** , in that letting children know what the consequences of their behaviour will be and being consistent in applying those consequences are key. Reasonable people can disagree on what appropriate consequences are for various actions. I do not advocate beating children, or corporal punishment as your first line of defense. IMO, toddlers are not up to reasoned explanations and an occasional swat on the butt or slapped hand is a good way to cement something in their memories. IMO, when kids are older corporal punishment doesn’t work. Then you take the opportunity to explain that actions have consequences, and help them learn the process for figuring out what the consequences might be. My kids will tell you of the boring explanations of why I’m speeding and how I have weighed the consequences of going 5 mph over the limit, what some of those consequences may be, and determined that I am still willing to perform the action. I am the queen of boring lectures–I think my kids would rather I beat them. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597/89 "2005-04-12T06:23:45Z")
Sure, spanking teaches some kids entirely the wrong lessons. _Some_ kids. That doesn’t mean that no child should ever be spanked, or that any parent who spanks is taking the bully’s way out. Judicious spanking works very well indeed for some kids. I was one of those kids. I was always kind of off in my own little world anyway, so I just zoned right out of lectures and explanations of stuff. Take away toys or books or games or tv? Feh. I had plenty of entertainment right there in my own head. Time out? Fine, I’ll just sit and drift off into LaLa Land, thanks. A pop on the ass, however, _that_ was punishment. I got maybe three or four spankings in my entire childhood, because the mere prospect of one was generally enough to put me back on the straight and narrow. And, of course, my parents were _very_ judicious about dealing out spankings or the threat thereof, which I think is really the only effective way to use spanking. My parents reserved spanking solely for repeated, willful disobedience, so I never had the chance to become inured to it. And, of course, it was never, ever an empty threat, and I knew it. As **belladonna** put it, I always knew they’d get off the couch. I also knew that my mother could tell when I was even thinking about considering allowing the possibility of misbehavior to cross my mind, even if she was halfway across the state, so I didn’t only behave when adults were around. My grandmother also reserved spanking for repeated willful disobedience. She had a system. First time you did something you shouldn’t, you were told to stop. If you carried on with the same behavior, you were reminded that she’d already told you once to stop, and if you continued you were going out to the yard to cut a switch. The third time, you were marched out to the yard to select your own switch (and by god, it had better be a good one) with the promise that if you didn’t straighten up _right now_, she was going to wear that switch out on your rear end. The fourth time, she wore that switch out on your rear end. I only ever picked out two or three switches, if that many, and we never used any of them. My brother, otoh, you could beat him till your arm fell off and it wouldn’t change his behavior one iota. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-go-ahead-and-smack-the-kid-thatll-make-him-behave/298597.md?page=4)