# Sure, name your kid G'uennnhwuyFurr, but expect people to point and laugh **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233 "2003-10-03T00:28:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/61 "2003-10-03T14:30:24Z")
So nobody here has named or is planning to name their boy “Sue”? ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/62 "2003-10-03T14:30:38Z")
There is a child in the school where I volunteer this year and, I kid you not, his name is Philander. We have decided either his mother was very bitter or very ignorant. Imagine growing up with that name? Poor kid…he’s a sweetheart too! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/63 "2003-10-03T14:38:29Z")
It could be worse. A Swedish couple a few years back wanted to name their child > [@](#): > > \*\*Brfxxccxxmnpcccclllmmnprxvclmnckssqlbb11116 \*\*The courts denied them this option, the big meanies. I mean, just think of poor little Brf, now saddled with a plain, boring moniker. IT’s tragic, really. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/64 "2003-10-03T14:40:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aries28 \* > \*\*There is a child in the school where I volunteer this year and, I kid you not, his name is Philander. > > We have decided either his mother was very bitter or very ignorant. > > Imagine growing up with that name? Poor kid…he’s a sweetheart too! \*\* Well, the name “Philander” comes form the Greek words _philos_ “friend” and _andros_ “man,” thus “friend of man”. In 17th century poetic dialogues, “Philander” was used for the name of a love, lending itself to our 21st definition of infidelity. So rather than being ignorant or bitter, the mother may have been a classicist. P.S. there was a gay porn writer who used the name “Phil Andros” for his leather S/M stories. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/65 "2003-10-03T14:42:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Well, the name “Philander” comes form the Greek words _philos_ “friend” and _andros_ “man,” thus “friend of man”. In 17th century poetic dialogues, “Philander” was used for the name of a love, lending itself to our 21st definition of infidelity. > > So rather than being ignorant or bitter, the mother may have been a classicist. > > P.S. there was a gay porn writer who used the name “Phil Andros” for his leather S/M stories. \*\* Color me the ignorant one then…my apologies. Very interesting… ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/66 "2003-10-03T14:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > > P.S. there was a gay porn writer who used the name “Phil Andros” for his leather S/M stories. \*\* not Jenna Tal? ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/67 "2003-10-03T15:07:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\*I have a Deadhead friend who named his son Elijah Sativa. (Wee Eli.) \*\* My mom once had a (female) student named Metallica. Metallica’s younger sibling was “Halen Roth.” I think Halen was a boy, although I wouldn’t swear to it. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/68 "2003-10-03T15:22:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Something I’ve long wondered: When the various Celtic languages, but especially Welsh, were first written down did the guys who did it have any but the vaguest idea what each letter was supposed to sound like? Were they literate at all or did they make it up as they went along. \*\* That has to be **THE** most outrageously brainless thing I have seen on the SDMB in the time I have been here - and let’s face it - there’s no shortage of competition! At first I thought it was an attempt at a joke, but nope - I see no smiley face or winky man. O dearie me. ☹ Yeah, **dropzone** anyone who writes in a foreign language is illiterate because **you** can’t understand it. By the same token, all of those who speak foreign languages should adopt the **dropzone** approved English language names and English language pronunciations for all of the letters in their alphabets. Good grief. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/69 "2003-10-03T15:23:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > **Gosh darn it! I knew as soon as I named the Sprout Arthur, there would be a rash of other Arthurs!** And when the kid grows up and folks want to know his profession, they will ask: “What is Art?” ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/70 "2003-10-03T15:30:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Something I’ve long wondered: When the various Celtic languages, but especially Welsh, were first written down did the guys who did it have any but the vaguest idea what each letter was supposed to sound like? Were they literate at all or did they make it up as they went along. \*\* Ahem! Is this “supposed to sound like” to be understood as “supposed to sound like” in any particular language? Don’t _many_ languages differ from others in the way certain letters or letter combinations are pronounced? How would we sort out exactly how the letter “j”, for instance, “supposed” to sound? As in Spanish, or as in English, or as in French, or German…? Well, to pick on one that occurs often in Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic…take the “ch” combination: should it be “tch”, “sh” k", or “ch” as used in Celtic languages, (oh and German, and quite likely others that I wot not of). And how to pronounce the “th” combination? English, anyway, assigns it two different pronunciations. I wonder what is it “supposed” to sound like. AFAIK, Welsh assigns it only one, using “dd” for othe other (in English, that is) “th” sound. Then there is the delightful “ough” combination. Well, I once spent half of a Saturday morning counting how many prounciations there are (sticking to English), for that one. Pity I cannot recall the answer. (Eek, perhaps 'tis the onset of Alzheimer’s disease. Ah, now, without looking very hard, there is another one - which language gets to decide how the “z” is to be pronounced? ) Even nice simple-looking letters can throw up questsions. What about “c”? Soft or Hard? And “g”? Oh yes, normally both are soft if followed by “i” or “e”, but think of how “margarine” is usually pronounced. OK truth is, I should leave it at that, as I really must dash off for a while, but, in passing, let me remark, just in case **Dropzone** lives in terror of the appearance of Welsh words - honestly - rather in the way that you can with German - you just take a sort of mental deep calming breath if needed to avoid panic attacks, then look and notice that in general all those scary long words tend to break down nicely into bite-sized chunks! 🙂 And I wonder just how much all those Cholmondelys and Featherstonehaughs thought about how words should sound. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/71 "2003-10-03T15:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ResIpsaLoquitor \* > \*\*Look, I wanna name MY first daughter “Amidala” and my second one “Arwen,” so I’m in no position to complain. \*\* Heh. There was a boy in my daugher’s kindergarten class named “Rowan.” Or so I thought. Unusual, but not unheard of, right? But it turned out to be “Rohan.” ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/72 "2003-10-03T15:53:37Z")
I don’t think it’s wrong to be afraid of Welsh words. They are scary! 🙂 I guess I’d be entitled to name my child (not that I’m having any) Gwenhwyfar or something, but I’ve always liked simpler names. If I had a daughter, it’d be Emily or Samantha. But a normal name is no guarantee, either. My gf is Melissa, and no one seems to be able to spell it correctly. No idea why. -David Arthur Jones, grandson of slate miners from Llangollen 😉 ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/73 "2003-10-03T16:01:32Z")
I met a girl named Teriyaki recently. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/74 "2003-10-03T16:02:11Z")
Oh cowardly **Necros**! Realy - I bet you _can_ manage Llangollen. Well, if you cannot at first try, well why else was beer invented? Even if you _might_ be scared to call it “cwrw”.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/75 "2003-10-03T16:04:26Z")
Actually, **curly chick** , there is one kernel of valid request for information in there. What happens is that what with the universal language of literacy at the start of the middle ages being Latin, and if you were a real scholar maybe you were also familar with Greek, the Western European languages found themselves, as they came into the Christian orbit, having to shoehorn their respective phonologies, which were dynamic things that evolved with time, into the arbitrary set of the Latin alphabet, which has been pretty much the same set of characters since Roman times, plus or minus your ocassional ð, þ, æ, ñ, ø, ß, å, j, w, and various diacrit marks. Then you had how _even Latin_ underwent phonetic shifts (“Church” Latin is NOT spoken the same as Classical Latin, nor is the “Vulgar Latin” of the common folk in Roman times). So when you came up to a language with sounds that were not appropriately represented by whatever version of Latin the preacher was familiar with, and an alphabet that has some characters for sounds the new language does not use. So they had to do the best they could to adapt the script to the sounds. Think about the alternate latinizations Mao Zedong/Mao Tse-tung, Teng Hsiao-p’ing/Deng Xiaoping, Peiping/Peking/Beijing. These are ways of trying to make Latin letters fit the sounds of Mandarin. Some do seem to fit our preconceived expectation ( Mao, -ng, e) but some diverge (P or B? p or k or j? T or D?) This was kludgy but must have seemed simpler than attempting to come up with a custom script for each language (in Eastern Europe they used an expanded Greek-based alphabet, Cyrillic, again made to fit several different languages) In any case even the numerically “major” languages did not standardize spelling and grammar rules until after printing was introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/76 "2003-10-03T16:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aries28 \* > **Color me the ignorant one then…my apologies.** Not at all. Philander is a legitimately “real” name, but in our society, it has a strong negative connotation. It’s a horrible thing to name a kid. Nothing wrong with the name Adolf either, except… Speaking of Nazis: **Racinchikki** : Here is a brief description of Operation Carpetbagger from the [USAF Museum site.](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/oc1.htm) Operation CARPETBAGGER: Night Flights Over Occupied Europe In 1943, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) - the forerunner of the Central Intelligence Agency - called upon the U.S. Army Air Forces (AAF) to conduct special operations from the United Kingdom. Aircrews started flying leaflet-dropping mission in October 1943, but plans called from them to fly dangerous, clandestine missions deep into the heart of occupied Europe. The majority of these missions secretly airdropped supplies by night to partisan fighters, under the codename Operation CARPETBAGGER. Leaflets encouraging German troops to surrender were dropped by the Carpetbaggers in hopes of disguising the real purpose of their mission. ---
**Author:** ![curly\_chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ba0ec/32.png) [@curly\_chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curly_chick)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/77 "2003-10-03T16:45:11Z")
**JRDelirious** That all sounds very scholarly. Thank you for the information. My good friend **Celyn** and I were suggesting that it might be somewhat clueless for anyone to imagine that the English language, alphabet and phonetic system could or should be blithely applied as the measure of the literacy of any foreign language speakers, speaking in their own language. Any native speaker of any language I consider foreign\* recites his alphabet using different sounds and names to those I would use. That doesn’t make him wrong. It certainly doesn’t make him illiterate. It makes him foreign. \*And no, I don’t just mean Americans! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_Heart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Angel\_Heart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_Heart)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/78 "2003-10-03T16:52:14Z")
My name’s short and easy to spell, but it’s so rare that most people say it wrong on the first try. They think I said “Laura” or “Lauren”, or they want to spell it with an “e” on the end. Some people say “No, really, what IS your name?” but most say it’s pretty. I’m quite fond of Celtic and Spanish names, but seeing as I’m black, it would sound a little pretentious. I kind of like last names as first names, but there are no good ones in my family (I’m **not** naming a kid Johnson, Kornegay, Camp or Medford). I think I’d like to name a boy Patrick or Jonathon and a girl Cynthia or Catherine. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/79 "2003-10-03T17:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Angel Heart \* > \*\*I’m quite fond of Celtic and Spanish names, but seeing as I’m black, it would sound a little pretentious. … I think I’d like to name a boy Patrick or Jonathon and a girl Cynthia or Catherine. \*\* Do you mind if I kibitz a bit? “Patrick” screams Irish to me. I’d find a black person named Patrick a bit odd. I met a Patrick who shared my Jewish last name, and it sounded really off to me too. That’s just MHO, and all that, but I thought I’d let you know. I wouldn’t find a black person with a Spanish name weird at all. Isn’t it quite common for blacks to have some Caribbean ancestry? I seem to know a lot of people who self-identify as black, and have Spanish, French, or Portuguese names. Cynthia reads “Spanish” to me anyway, as at leasy half of the Cynthias I’ve ever encountered were Latina. I love the name, in any case–Especially pronounced the Spanish way. I love Spanish names myself, as I find Spanish to be the most beautiful language of them all! Hmm…maybe I should name the next kidlet Geronimo… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233/80 "2003-10-03T17:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you mind if I kibitz a bit? “Patrick” screams Irish to me. I’d find a black person named Patrick a bit odd. Not a fan of the Orlando Magic, are we? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sure-name-your-kid-guennnhwuyfurr-but-expect-people-to-point-and-laugh/205233.md?page=5)