# Surely The Lord of the Rings is one of the best stories ever written **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth, books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [May 13, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504 "2024-05-13T19:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/101 "2024-05-14T18:07:18Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Ah, yes - it was The Scar I was thinking of, not Kraken which I don’t think I ever got around to It should not surprise anyone that I choose the giant cephalopod over his other works as a first read. I don’t think it’s considered his best or anything, but I like it. There are some passages of astonishing writing where he describes the city using nautical and oceanic language and it’s so powerful. I don’t remember a ton about it but I remember someone folding up a cash register like a piece of paper and nobody acts particularly surprised about it. Anyone who reads Mieville has to have a high tolerance for that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/102 "2024-05-14T18:07:25Z")
Le Guin is IMO the greatest American fantasist, and one of the greatest American authors. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/103 "2024-05-14T19:45:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Le Guin is IMO the greatest American fantasist, and one of the greatest American authors.   With that username, I expect you to say that. 😃 Edited to add context: [_The Left Hand of Darkness_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Left_Hand_of_Darkness). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/104 "2024-05-14T19:48:01Z")
Yep! At first that post began, “It will surprise nobody that I think…” but I posted it simultaneously with @Spice_Weasel’s post that began, “It should not surprise anyone that I choose…” and I got insecure about looking like I was copying her text and edited mine, because I’m a goober. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/105 "2024-05-14T20:00:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Le Guin is IMO the greatest American fantasist, and one of the greatest American authors. I have a recording of the lady herself reading “Gwillan’s Harp” – one of my favorites of hers, a story of loss that I played time and again when my wife died. Here it is on YouTube, 14 minutes. The watery music ends after 90 seconds. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PzqjHIEE_vI/hqdefault.jpg "Ursula K. Le Guin reads "Gwilan's Harp"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzqjHIEE_vI) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/106 "2024-05-14T20:17:26Z")
That is beautiful. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/107 "2024-05-14T20:39:34Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I don’t think I’ll find much disagreement here. Try me. I used to love it. Rereads every year, searching out all the supplementary writings, that kind of thing. Still have the classic Cauty poster on my wall as I type this. Went to the premier of the first Jackson movie in Hobbit cosplay. Nowadays, I can’t overlook the racism, classism, and the damn sausage fest of it all. I think quite frankly Pratchett spoiled me for Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/108 "2024-05-14T20:40:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Le Guin is IMO the greatest American fantasist, and one of the greatest American authors True, that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/109 "2024-05-14T21:01:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, that was really upsetting. I was also annoyed that they used Gimli as comic relief, However, by that time Merry and Pippin were gone off, so they needed _some_ comic relief. I mean, JRRT wrote them in as comic relief. But I do agree, Gimli - other than his grumbling- should not be the comic relief. > [@silenus](#): > > Like I give a shit about what the dwarves called the River 500 years ago. See, that is why JRRT was the very best at world building. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I read about half of _Kraken_ by China Mieville. Yeah, I was sent that book to review. I was torn- the author is clearly some sort of genius, but I didnt like the book at all. Speculative Fiction is not a genre I enjoy. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > _The Raven Tower_, by Ann Leckie. I found a used copy on Amazon for $3, so I will give it a try- thanks. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I just downloaded A Wizard of Earthsea. I liked it, but the sequels didnt hold up- imho. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/110 "2024-05-14T23:53:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The Jackson films are the best three part series ever- and yes I include The Godfather. The books were great. The movies sucked. Adding stuff like Aragorn’s weird walkabout that didn’t happen in the books, and omitting everything that happened at Isengard at the end of Book III, starting with Merry and Pippin greeting Theoden & Co. - really?! That’s the climax of Book III, and it happens offstage, we’re just told later that Isengard has fallen, or however they put it. And the siege of Gondor - in the movie, the Lord of the Nazgul had creatures that dwarfed the walls of Gondor, I remember thinking they could just step into the city the way you and I step over a curb. It made the confrontation between Gandalf and the Nazgul lord at the gate look like, well, why is this even _happening?!_ And that’s the crazy stuff I still remember after having only watched each movie once, back when they were in the theaters. I’m sure there was plenty more that I had problems with at the time. (I’m sure I made my feelings known here at the Dope, but I’m too lazy to search for it right now.) Seriously, I don’t understand the love of Peter Jackson’s LOTR movies. To me, they just meant that it would be at least a generation before someone did them _right_. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/111 "2024-05-15T00:01:19Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > I tried to read it, I think, 3 different times. And I failed each time, mainly because of Tom Bombadil. But without Bombadil, we wouldn’t have had Tim Benzedrine in _Bored of the Rings_! > Tim, Tim Benzedrine, > Hash! Boo! Valvoline! > Clean! Clean! Clean for Gene! > First, second, neutral, park, > _hie thee hence_, you leafy narc! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/112 "2024-05-15T00:04:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Speculative Fiction is not a genre I enjoy. You sure seem to have read a lot of it. > **[Speculative fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction)** > > Speculative fiction is an umbrella genre of fiction that encompasses all the subgenres that depart from realism, or strictly imitating everyday reality, instead presenting fantastical, supernatural, futuristic, or other imaginative realms. This catch-all genre includes, but is not limited to, science fiction, fantasy, horror, slipstream, magical realism, superhero fiction, alternate history, utopia and dystopia, fairy tales, steampunk, cyberpunk, weird fiction, and some apocalyptic and p "Specu... ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/113 "2024-05-15T00:08:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > omitting everything that happened at Isengard at the end of Book III, starting with Merry and Pippin greeting Theoden & Co. - really?! That’s the climax of Book III, and it happens offstage, we’re just told later that Isengard has fallen Have you ever seen the extended versions, or only the theatrical versions? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/114 "2024-05-15T00:09:29Z")
I watched them each in movie theaters at the time of their original release. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/115 "2024-05-15T00:10:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The books were great. The movies sucked. > > (snip) > > Seriously, I don’t understand the love of Peter Jackson’s LOTR movies. To me, they just meant that it would be at least a generation before someone did them _right_. Put me down for the **exact opposite** in every way. I can see how/why some people love the books. I can also see why I _don’t_. If this is unacceptable have your seconds call on my seconds and we’ll settle this with a good old salmon-slapping contest. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/116 "2024-05-15T00:12:08Z")
Salmon?! Why, no true gentleman duels with salmon! Gonna give you a haddock, I am! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/117 "2024-05-15T00:15:10Z")
Have you priced duel-quality haddock these days? Impossible. Large-mouth bass? That’s only a letter off from one of us (he typed innocently.) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/118 "2024-05-15T00:46:21Z")
Some excuse that is! Why, I bet you don’t even know what to take for a haddock! ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/119 "2024-05-15T01:35:01Z")
I’m one of those who have read LOTR over a dozen times… though most of that was between the ages of 13 and 30. It’s one of the books that is the most important to me, but I will agree with some of the ‘dislikes’ in this thread. I have had read-throughs where I’ve clung to every word, but other times where I just had no patience for elvish balladry, or where I skip much of the journey between Bree and Rivendell, or when Sam and Frodo are trekking south (there’s a lot of The Two Towers that I find myself glossing over on re-reads). But, at this point I don’t find my interest or lack thereof in specific sections to be an indictment of the book itself. It gives me what I’m looking for on each read, and if this time I don’t care about Tom Bombadil, it doesn’t mean that when I last read it I didn’t find that character moving. I think the book delivers a compelling set of philosophies about how to endure in the face of un-avoidable loss, and that is what continues to move me. That said, I’ll also echo that A Wizard of Earthsea and its subsequent books are stunning (including Tehanu, published 20 years after the first three). Where Tolkiens characters can be single-mindedly stoic, LeGuin’s are imbued with a much broader range of human emotion. And, while Tolkien’s world building is detailed, evocative, and verbose, hers is stark in contrast, but the relative simplicity of the prose is equally powerful, if not more so. I’ve stopped recommending LotR to folks for various reasons, but continue to push Earthsea on anyone who seems even vaguely interested. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504/120 "2024-05-15T02:37:27Z")
For the record, Tolkien did not invent modern fantasy, or even high fantasy. He did popularize it and many people follow things he created/popularized (noble elves, quests being all male, etc.) but he hardly created it. I’m probably alone, but the only book of Le Guin’s I like is **The Tombs of Atuan**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-lord-of-the-rings-is-one-of-the-best-stories-ever-written/1001504.md?page=7)