# Surely the mass of humanity is more "awful" now than it was before "The Great Flood" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129 "2020-02-18T22:02:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/1 "2020-02-18T22:02:20Z")
Whatever those folks (except for Noah) were doing that inspired God to “wipe the slate clean” must’ve paled in its degree of badness as compared our current state of horribleness. No? Well, what the heck is he/ she waiting for? Can’t find a “Noah” this time? ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/2 "2020-02-18T22:27:05Z")
He made a rainbow promise that he wouldn’t do it again… ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/3 "2020-02-18T22:34:25Z")
Nope; I’ve every confidence that humanity is far better in almost every respect than it ever has been. People are better educated, healthier, better fed, longer-lived, more open-minded and less prone to violence than ever in the history of the world. On the other hand the flood situation here in York is pretty alarming. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/4 "2020-02-18T22:43:09Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > Well, what the heck is he/ she waiting for? Existence? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/5 "2020-02-18T23:20:44Z")
> [@Folly](#): > > He made a rainbow promise that he wouldn’t do it again… Yes, but that was only a promise that there would be no more destruction [by water.](https://biblehub.com/genesis/9-11.htm) The next such (indeed, greater) destruction will be [by fire.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+3%3A10&version=NLV) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/6 "2020-02-18T23:23:49Z")
To answer the OP, the Flood was a one-time event; I don’t think it’s like there is a critical mass of evilness that, once it is reached, prompts God to do a cleansing. It is true that in the End Times (such as shown in Revelations, etc.) that ultimately everyone will die or be Raptured but that isn’t Flood 2.0, it’s more “The End Times are the end” - at least, as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/7 "2020-02-18T23:50:03Z")
Wasn’t the flood just a gigantic myth based on the fact that the black sea flooded and all the cultures near the area invented a flood mythology? Either way, as others have said humans are better now than they’ve ever been. Compare the rates of child abuse, torture, starvation, disease, charity, etc. from thousands of years ago to now, there is no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/8 "2020-02-19T00:11:24Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Wasn’t the flood just a gigantic myth based on the fact that the black sea flooded and all the cultures near the area invented a flood mythology? > > Either way, as others have said humans are better now than they’ve ever been. > > Compare the rates of child abuse, torture, starvation, disease, charity, etc. from thousands of years ago to now, there is no comparison. How exactly can I compare those rates? And why would God have punished people for starving and having diseases? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/9 "2020-02-19T00:31:44Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > Whatever those folks (except for Noah) were doing that inspired God to “wipe the slate clean” must’ve paled in its degree of badness as compared our current state of horribleness. No? Well, what the heck is he/ she waiting for? Can’t find a “Noah” this time? Yeah…“they” engaged in regular human sacrifice and Trump said some mean things on Twitter. They regularly had generational slavery and burnt entire cities down cause God told them too (wait, that was POST NOAH)…while in our time some professor was fired for misgendering. MONSTER. Talk about your Greatest Generation logical fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/10 "2020-02-19T00:45:26Z")
> [@2Bits](#): > > No? Well, what the heck is he/ she waiting for? Can’t find a “Noah” this time? Presumably the events described in the Book of Revelations to unfold? ---
**Author:** ![2Bits](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e95f7d/32.png) [@2Bits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2Bits)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/11 "2020-02-19T00:48:43Z")
Was “human sacrifice” specifically mentioned by God as a reason for the flood? I’ve read about all the “wickedness” and vaguely alluded to “violence” as being a motivation (and “sin” in general) but all-in-all we’re pretty darn sinful nowadays. And pretty violent in a modern sense. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/12 "2020-02-19T02:01:56Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Wasn’t the flood just a gigantic myth based on the fact that the black sea flooded and all the cultures near the area invented a flood mythology? Or else it is just based on one of very large regular floods that every civilization encounters every few hundred years, which then made its way in the folk lore. “You think this flood is bad well let me tell you a story about a real flood” > [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but that was only a promise that there would be no more destruction [by water.](https://biblehub.com/genesis/9-11.htm) The next such (indeed, greater) destruction will be [by fire.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Peter+3%3A10&version=NLV) Yeah, you need to read the [fine print](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/ark-2). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/13 "2020-02-19T02:25:56Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Or else it is just based on one of very large regular floods that every civilization encounters every few hundred years, which then made its way in the folk lore. “You think this flood is bad well let me tell you a story about a real flood” Many years ago someone posted a compendium of flood legends on talk.origins. It was fascinating. (I think there were over 50, maybe 100). Many had the survivors landing, the last people on earth, and then some more people came over the hill. The ancients were not very logically consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/14 "2020-02-19T02:27:11Z")
Trump, the energy companies, and the other climate change denying scum are doing a good job preparing for a new inundation without the need for more rain. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/15 "2020-02-19T02:32:09Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Yeah…“they” engaged in regular human sacrifice and Trump said some mean things on Twitter. They regularly had generational slavery and burnt entire cities down cause God told them too (wait, that was POST NOAH)…while in our time some professor was fired for misgendering. MONSTER. > > Talk about your Greatest Generation logical fallacy. In Genesis the problem seems to be more the sons of God shtupping mortals. Child sacrifice is not mentioned. Given that when God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac Abraham knew what he was talking about, I’d think the practice continued after the flood. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/16 "2020-02-19T04:51:15Z")
As I recall from reading _Genesis_, Noah was kind of a dick. So were Lot and Jacob. God’s standard for finding favor might not square with yours or mine. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/17 "2020-02-19T06:06:37Z")
We are much, much, much better. The scariest part in modern times was the nuclear standoffs, but even in the handful of years before the Soviets got their bomb, it’s still a wonder the US didn’t use it again. Quite frankly, despite the horrors of the Holocaust and other events of the period, it’s hardly out of the ordinary, except that higher population means higher death rate. Here’s something an ancient guy was **proud of**. It wasn’t propaganda to turn people against him. > [@Ashurnasirpal II](#): > > Their men young and old I took prisoners. Of some I cut off their feet and hands; of others I cut off the ears noses and lips; of the young men’s ears I made a heap; of the old men’s heads I made a minaret. I exposed their heads as a trophy in front of their city. The male children and the female children I burned in flames; the city I destroyed, and consumed with fire. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/18 "2020-02-19T06:27:59Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Nope; I’ve every confidence that humanity is far better in almost every respect than it ever has been. People are better educated, healthier, better fed, longer-lived, more open-minded and less prone to violence than ever in the history of the world. I have no doubt you have volumes of well researched data for the prebiblical era so I’m sure your every confidence is well founded. Mind you, people for good or ill, are restricted by the technology of their times. And hey, if someone subscribes to the belief that man marches towards betterment as a matter of course, was a flood necessary? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/19 "2020-02-19T08:05:56Z")
In the Ethiopian bible, there is the book of Enoch, wherein the pre-flood people include half-human giant cannibals. If so, that doesn’t seem to be something that has been repeated. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/20 "2020-02-19T13:25:19Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Wasn’t the flood just a gigantic myth based on the fact that the black sea flooded and all the cultures near the area invented a flood mythology? > > Either way, as others have said humans are better now than they’ve ever been. > > Compare the rates of child abuse, torture, starvation, disease, charity, etc. from thousands of years ago to now, there is no comparison. What’s the earliest documented instance of an evil human? IIRC, none of the characters in _Iliad_ or _Odyssey_ were presented as evil. Setting aside war, and sacrifice — which was “religious”, not “evil” — do you have a cite for child abuse or torture during the Neolithic? BTW, while the Black Sea flooding was a major event (What’s the latest news from archaeologists?), I’d heard there were too many major floods in the Near East (albeit none as colossal as the Black Sea’s) to be confident that any _single_ flood led to the myth. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129.md?page=2)