# Surely the mass of humanity is more "awful" now than it was before "The Great Flood"

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [February 18, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129 "2020-02-18T22:02:20Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/41 "2020-02-21T11:21:36Z")

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> [@septimus](#):
>
> What’s the earliest documented instance of an evil human? IIRC, none of the characters in _Iliad_ or _Odyssey_ were presented as evil. Setting aside war, and sacrifice — which was “religious”, not “evil” — do you have a cite for child abuse or torture during the Neolithic?

My question was serious. Obviously there was killing long ago, but it was work in brutish times, in pursuit of straightforward political and economic goals. It wasn’t “evil” like Vlad the Impaler, or Charles Manson.

So who IS the earliest recorded “evil” human? Fictional characters are allowed, but I’m not sure Cain the First Murderer qualifies as truly “evil.”

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**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surely-the-mass-of-humanity-is-more-awful-now-than-it-was-before-the-great-flood/848129/42 "2020-02-21T13:47:10Z")

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> [@DocCathode](#):
>
> The whole line is “The Nephilim were in the earth in those days”. What exactly Nephelim were is not mentioned anywhere in the five books of Moses. It is usually translated into English as “Giants”.

Staff Report: [In the Bible, who were the “giant sons of God”?](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1971/in-the-bible-who-were-the-giant-sons-of-god/)

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