# Surname Frustration (rant and question) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 22, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607 "2005-04-22T15:18:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/21 "2005-04-23T08:57:39Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Why should she have felt obligated to change her name at all? What’s wrong with using your original last name, sans hyphenation? Damn patriarchy. Exactly! Why should she take her husband’s name when she already has a perfectly good one from her father? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/22 "2005-04-23T09:49:36Z")
I will never understand the obsession people have with male last names. If a person wants to change their name or keep their name, that’s their own damn business so butt the hell out and respect their wishes. I’ve even heard of couples who took a completely different last name to avoid the whole problem. My oldest sister kept her maiden name, my middle sister took her husband’s name. When I marry, I will take my husband’s name but only because I hate my last name and I’m not too fond of the father who gave it to me either. My wifely duty and tradition don’t figure into it at all. My own slight rant about names: Why the hell do parents and grandparents find it necessary to treat their daughters worse than their sons just because they wont carry on the precious family name? Women are not second class family members just because they tend to change their names when they marry. I have 3 friends who were all treated like dirt by their grandparents because they were girls. Luckily, each of these women had great parents and understanding brothers so they still turned out ok but not everyone has that. I wonder how many girls grow up to feel inferior because of how they were treated. All because of a stupid name. ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/23 "2005-04-23T10:43:43Z")
> [@congodwarf](#): > > My own slight rant about names: > Why the hell do parents and grandparents find it necessary to treat their daughters worse than their sons just because they wont carry on the precious family name? Women are not second class family members just because they tend to change their names when they marry. > I have 3 friends who were all treated like dirt by their grandparents because they were girls. Luckily, each of these women had great parents and understanding brothers so they still turned out ok but not everyone has that. I wonder how many girls grow up to feel inferior because of how they were treated. All because of a stupid name. [hijack] Heh. I’m in a bit of a sticky one with this as well, b/c my father told me once that “raising a daughter is like watering your neighbor’s plant.” Yeah. Real charmer. The problem is that I’m planning on starting a business soon, and my fiance and I aren’t getting married for awhile so I will be using my maiden name as my business name. Under normal circumstances, this is fine; I happen to be very fond of my name. Even if I took my fiance’s name after we married, I would still be known professionally by my maiden name. But something about keeping it, becoming successful, and giving that ol’ sexist redneck dad of mine _another_ reason to be proud of that name is bugging me. Childish, undoubtedly, but seeing as he’s always been way more concerned with my brother than with me…because my brother will “carry on the name”…it irks me nonetheless to keep it and make something of it. Ugh. Can’t quite get over it. [/hijack] As for the OP…I like \*_missbunny’s_ idea best so far, other than the obvious option of “rising above,” which is no fun at all and which I cannot recommend because I’d never do it either. 😃 Clog their mailboxes with polite notices that they are being morons! Nothing is more personal than someone’s name; common courtesy dictates that you go out of your way to make sure you get it right. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/24 "2005-04-23T12:07:05Z")
> [@Stark Raven Mad](#): > > A small hijack here (slightly justified in that everyone involved in already in here - please don’t consider this hijack an act of disrespect) - but why would you combine your last names? What’s wrong with your husband’s name? I notice your location is Hong Kong and Sydney, so perhaps this is some cultural confusion. In the US, it’s not a matter of “there’s something wrong with his name” so much as “there’s nothing wrong with _her_ name, either”. Naming customs after marriage have been undergoing a transition here in the States for several decades now, and it’s entirely unremarkable for a woman to do any of the following upon marriage: - take his surname - keep her maiden surname unchanged - hyphenate the two surnames It’s a little less common for the man to change his name, but not unheard of either. Likewise combining or altering surnames for one or both spouses. At the company I work at I’d say easily half the married women used hyphenated last names, and about 1/3 of the remainder kept their maiden names unchanged, and the rest went for the traditional “take his surname”. As a result of this, it is quite common for a woman, on announcing that she’s engaged, to be asked something like “are you keeping your name, taking his name, or something else?” Likewise (and I suspect you in no way intended this), to say “What’s wrong with his name?” can be construed as offensive among some here in the US. Women who keep/hyphenate their maiden surname are not doing it to reject something of his, but rather to keep something of hers. There can also be other reasons for keeping one’s maiden name - a woman in a career that is dependent on reputation and/or published works may have professional or economic reasons to keep her maiden name. Also one can continue to use one’s maiden name for professional reasons after marriage, having one’s professional name differ form one’s legal name can cause complications in life that some people would rather avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/25 "2005-04-23T12:52:06Z")
Miss Manners once received a letter from a woman complaining that her son and daughter-in-law were going to give their expected child HER last name. MIL wanted to know how to tell them that wasn’t proper. Mis Manners replied that if MIL brought the issue up, she’d never hear the end of it if she lived to be a hundred. You can go by your name of preference, and it is nobody else’s business. it’s good manner to use a person’s NOP. And let’s stop using the expression “madien” name. Who the hell is a madien anymore. “Birth name” is more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/26 "2005-04-23T14:28:39Z")
My brother and sister-in-law took an entirely new last name, to celebrate their new family unit. Works for me. I’m keeping my name, he’s keeping his. Our names only differ by a few letters (and sound almost identical when said quickly) so I’m looking forward to telemarketers. “Oh, there’s no one here by that name…” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/27 "2005-04-23T15:12:54Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Miss Manners once received a letter from a woman complaining that her son and daughter-in-law were going to give their expected child HER last name. MIL wanted to know how to tell them that wasn’t proper. > > Mis Manners replied that if MIL brought the issue up, she’d never hear the end of it if she lived to be a hundred. > > You can go by your name of preference, and it is nobody else’s business. it’s good manner to use a person’s NOP. And let’s stop using the expression “madien” name. Who the hell is a madien anymore. “Birth name” is more accurate. Nope, sorry. Birth name is the name my adopted son was given at birth. I agree that “maiden” is dated. But “birth” has adoption connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Kiminy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Kiminy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiminy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/28 "2005-04-23T16:51:16Z")
I kept my last name when we got married, and he kept his. Most of my family was okay with this, except for my paternal grandfather, who not only refused to understand why I would do something so outrageous, but who actually got angry with me for it, even after I pointed out that it was HIS last name I was keeping. He absolutely insisted on sending everything to me with the wrong last name, including checks. Even his will had the wrong name, even though he had me fill out paper work multiple times to make sure that it was right. Since my own last name isn’t super common, and tends to be pronounced every way but the right way in this country, I learned a long time ago that it’s really not worth getting heated up over names, as long as the intention is polite. So I answer to Mrs. HisName, even though I prefer Ms. MyName. Even when the intention _isn’t_ polite, though, I figure it’s just as rude for me to point it out, so I just let it slide. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/29 "2005-04-23T17:11:44Z")
I kept my last name and we often get mail from family addressed to Mr. & Mrs. Hisname. And boy, let me tell you somethin’, ladies and gentlemen . . . Why, I . . . I . . . I don’t care. What does it matter? If they’re making some kind of passive agressive complaint about what you call yourself, well, IMHO, the best revenge is to just ignore it. In my return addresses I alternate between “Podkayne Fries and Hubby Hisname” or “Hubby Hisname and Podkayne Fries.” Some people pick up on it and address things properly, some are just clueless, and some might be addressing me as Mrs. Hisname to try to make some kind of a point, but honestly, I don’t know the difference between the latter two. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/30 "2005-04-23T19:47:23Z")
> [@congodwarf](#): > > My own slight rant about names: > Why the hell do parents and grandparents find it necessary to treat their daughters worse than their sons just because they wont carry on the precious family name? Women are not second class family members just because they tend to change their names when they marry. > I have 3 friends who were all treated like dirt by their grandparents because they were girls. Luckily, each of these women had great parents and understanding brothers so they still turned out ok but not everyone has that. I wonder how many girls grow up to feel inferior because of how they were treated. All because of a stupid name. My gramma\* thought I was her pride and joy! See, she had only had sons, and all of her sons had only had boys too, except for me. I am the only girl in two generations of that family and so she just adores me. I can’t count the number of times we’d run into one of her ladyfriends from Bingo or Church and she’d say, “This is Lindsay, my granddaughter. She’s my _only_ granddaughter! I only have grandsons otherwise!” Even now, I sometimes get preferential treatment or little extras (I’m a month shy of 23) because I’m _the_ grand_daughter_, not _a_ grand_son_ and I’m really special to her. 🙂 Oh, and to at least keep this post slightly On Topic: When I marry, I will more than likely keep my name. No offense to my future-husband, but I like my name, it’s unique, and dammit, changing your name everywhere is a hassle! - Yes I have two grammas, but the one I’m talking about is the one who I went to after school until my mom could pick me up, and I spent my summer weekdays with her, so she’s my “main” gramma. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/31 "2005-04-23T21:17:28Z")
> [@Manatee](#): > > If you REALLY want to watch their heads explode, do what we did: marry, she keeps her last name, and the kids have her last name as well. That’s currently our plan. My name is nicer. Hubby supports this. I have had issues in the past with people addressing stuff to Cyn HisLastName or Mr. & Mrs HisLastName (I do not use Mrs either - Mrs HisLastName is my mother-in-law). What did I do? I started signing even casual correspondence (i.e., email) with Cyn Mylastname. In the body of cards, on return address labels, everywhere I could. Yes, sometimes I would underline it. When it was from both of us, I included both of our last names. And no, the offenders weren’t the older generation or even his family. One of the most annoying culprits was my maid of honour who was more than aware that I did not take his last name. Frankly, I don’t care if it came across as rude. It’s rude to intentionally address me as someone I am not. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/32 "2005-04-23T21:40:56Z")
Thank Og you’re not two guys (or gals) joined together in holy matrimony – what they might be calling you wouldn’t involve either of your last names. ---
**Author:** ![kiffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/d78d45/32.png) [@kiffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiffa)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/33 "2005-04-23T21:58:00Z")
He kept his and I added his last name b/w my first and last names - w/o hyphen. We are now married more than 20 years and: 1. My mother always addresses her letters Mrs Kiffa HisLastName. Sigh. 2. One of my credit card companies has consistently refused to change my name since I married Sigh 3. The community that I work and live in overseas isn’t exactly PC/diplomatically correct… I am always Mrs HisLastName by the powers that be. Sigh 4. Living overseas: the travel agent can’t issue tickets with hyphen so they put in forward slash which my frequently flyer carrier doesnot recognize as me soI have to send in my mileage to get credit. Deep sigh. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/34 "2005-04-23T22:09:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I notice your location is Hong Kong and Sydney, so perhaps this is some cultural confusion. Well, i can’t really speak for Hong Kong, because i’ve only ever been there on vacation.B But as someone who’s spent most of his life in Australia, i can categorically state that very few Australians would be surprised at the idea of a woman keeping her own name. Almost all my Australian woman friends have kept their own name after marriage. Hell, i even know one couple where the guy took the woman’s last name. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/35 "2005-04-24T00:52:18Z")
I never saw any point in changing my name, either. It doesn’t bother me a bit when repair people and such call me by his last name. First and foremost, they don’t know any different, and I certainly don’t expect them to be psychic. Almost as important is that I don’t expect to have any prolonged dealings with them–they’re going to do the work and disappear from my life. And of course there’s the fact that both of us are just an account number to them anyway. But when friends and family do it…that just really chaps my ass. They bloody well _do_ know, because I’ve told them, multiple times. I’ve also told them it chaps my ass, and there’s nothing guaranteed to make me absolutely froth at the mouth like deliberately doing something you know pisses me off. They bloody well know _that_, too. I don’t see anything wrong with sending deliberately misaddressed mail back, though I would give people one final warning and announce your intentions before doing so. People who are geunuinely well-meaning but thick-skulled tend to realize at that point that, yes, it really does bother you. These folks will pay more attention in the future. People who are just being ornery or passive-aggressive will be massively pissed off at your audacity. These folks can suck it, as far as I’m concerned. They clearly don’t give a rat’s ass if they hurt/offend/upset you, so I have a really hard time giving a rat’s ass about upsetting them. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/36 "2005-04-24T01:02:41Z")
> [@Manatee](#): > > Jeez, people, get over it. It’s just a name. I dunno, I feel like this too. Are they good, loving grandparents in every other way? Why can’t you indulge them in this? My parents still call me by my “baby name” - all Indians get baby names before their real ones - and probably will until the day I die. I don’t expect them to change, that’d be kind of rude. And while I’d rather change my name (why do I want to keep the name of the father I didn’t choose over the man I did choose) I also understand the different reasons for the different combinations. Both of you hyphenating your names is a new one, granted. Sounds nice, but I don’t really see why your grandparents absolutely have to keep to it. It’d be nice, but if it’s not going to happen then returning their letters seems kind of rude to me. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/37 "2005-04-24T02:00:30Z")
Just a name, eh? So it’s okay if I call you **Moomatee** and **Assaamika**? If that’s not okay, why not? It’s just a name, so it shouldn’t be any skin off your ass to humor me. If her relatives were too senile to remember that her name had changed, I’d be all for cutting them some slack. But if they can remember her husband’s original name, they can certainly remember that the name is hyphenated. They know about her decision, they just refuse to acknowlege it. It’s hurtful when someone you care about refuses to acknowlege decisions you’ve thought long and hard about. It’s a rejection of sorts, a way of saying that your decisions aren’t legitimate, that they don’t respect the way you’ve chosen to run your life. You wouldn’t tell someone to just humor relatives who refused to acknowlege a same-sex partner, would you? ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/38 "2005-04-24T03:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > … Just a name, eh? So it’s okay if I call you **Moomatee** and **Assaamika**? … that should be, “So it’s okay if I call you Anaamika Moomatee?” that is, i/o Anaamika d/o Great[sup]∞[/sup]Grandfathersname. or Yourname c/o YourGreat[sup]∞[/sup]Grandfathersname. granted, the issue of the patriarchal last name should be remedied but your last name/surname/family name/whatever does not belong to you, it belongs to your ancestors without whom you’ll never be. all this talk of disrespect for a person’s choice of his/her own name totally disregard the feelings of all the dead ancestors who surely are turning in their collective graves right about now. post not directed at you **CrazyCatLady** , just those who feel that it is their right to change their surname, and that any protest to the contrary by their elders is disrespect towards them, not by them. * * * just to toss in something contrary, not necessarily IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/39 "2005-04-24T04:11:57Z")
At our wedding, my wife and I were introduced as Mr. Firstname Barbarian and Dr. Herfirstname Herlastname. People who fail to understand that my wife’s name didn’t change are just rude, whether it’s my brother, my mother, our grandparents, or anyone else. Now with the birth of my daughter, I’m wondering how many more of this idiots will fail to realize that my daughter’s last name is the same as my wife’s… ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607/40 "2005-04-24T04:25:35Z")
I think that trying to get other people to conform to your ideas (this is to everybody in general who’s upset) marks an ulterior motive in what you’re doing. You should maybe adopt or arrive at your own truths and not worry so much about what happens outside of that circle, or care. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surname-frustration-rant-and-question/300607.md?page=3)