# Surnames associated with a particular ancestry **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899 "2007-08-25T16:32:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/81 "2007-08-28T01:32:35Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] Are names in English derived from colours all from the period of time when the English decided that colonists in Ireland were turning too native and tried to do away with Irish names in exchange for bland meaningless ones? [/QUOTE] I’ve never heard that theory (but then, I’m American). I always thought the names Black, Brown, and White originated with the person’s hair color, and Green was the name of someone who lived by the village green. What other colors get used as names? ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/82 "2007-08-28T05:03:06Z")
For Mandarin Chinese names, they’re restricted to the syllables that are allowed by the language, and there are 100 or so surnames that will show up most of the time. Some of the most popular (from my experience) include: Chen, Zhang, Wang, Li, Yao, Ma, Jiang, Hu You can find a good list [here](http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/3919/hundred.html). ---
**Author:** ![Vimp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vimp/32/4186_2.png) [@Vimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vimp)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/83 "2007-08-28T05:17:18Z")
As noted above, different scandinavian languages use -son and -sen as patronymics, but, as far as I know, only Icelandic still uses the patronymic -dottir for girls. I grew up with a friend, Elin Arnesdottir, who had a hell of a time registering in California schools (this was in the 1960’s). Eventually, around fifth grade, they just capitulated, and she changed her name to Elin Olson, to match her father’s surname. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/84 "2007-08-28T16:25:31Z")
Oh I forgot to mention (for Mandarin Chinese names) that all surnames are a single syllable, since they are represented by a single character. So if you see an Asian-looking name that’s 2 or more syllables, you know it’s not Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/85 "2007-08-28T17:09:34Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] …The only place where I’ve encountered names of animals as lastnames in Spanish has been in novels and movies written by “foreigners.” Doesn’t mean it never happens but it’s definitely not normal. The other three languages of Spain do use animals for lastnames, though. [/QUOTE] Then, there’s Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca–early explorer of Texas & “proto-anthropologist.” ---
**Author:** ![4.66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/2bfe46/32.png) [@4.66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4.66)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/86 "2007-08-28T19:42:32Z")
Names ending in _-stra_ or in _-sma_, like _Dijkstra_ or _Ritsma_, originate from Friesland. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/87 "2007-08-28T20:08:57Z")
anything-sky (or is it -ski?) usually means Russian or Polish, right? usually Polish, I think. ---
**Author:** ![tiltypig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dbc845/32.png) [@tiltypig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiltypig)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/88 "2007-08-28T21:22:58Z")
[QUOTE=Windwalker] Oh I forgot to mention (for Mandarin Chinese names) that all surnames are a single syllable, since they are represented by a single character. So if you see an Asian-looking name that’s 2 or more syllables, you know it’s not Chinese. [/QUOTE] Actually, there are a few Chinese surnames with two syllables. Cite: > **[3.1.2. Chinese and Korean names](https://ufal.mff.cuni.cz/pdt2.0/doc/manuals/en/m-layer/html/ch03s01s02.html)** Of these, the only one I’ve ever seen is Ouyang/Owyang. But your rule of thumb is not really correct. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/89 "2007-08-28T22:36:54Z")
Nguyễn (help·info) (IPA:/ŋwiɜn˧˩˥/ in Vietnamese; English approximation: win) is the most common Vietnamese family name. By some estimates, approximately 40 percent of Vietnamese people have this surname. [More Hungarian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames#Hungary) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/90 "2007-08-29T03:13:30Z")
In Thailand, surnames date back only about 90 years. Really. King Rama VI (reigned 1910-25) decreed that Thais adopt them. Anytime you see a Thai surname that is very long, that is almost always a dead giveaway that the person is of Chinese ethnicity. Ethnic Thai surnames tend not be more than one or two syllables long. Indeed, the Thai language itself tends to be very monosyllabic. Words of several syllables are actually compounds usually. Why the ethnic Chinese here have longer surnames than they probably would in China, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/91 "2007-08-29T08:18:33Z")
Besides the few that are on Wikipedia, there are a ton of other name patterns that pop up in Japan, but most of them have nothing to do with actual ancestry. If you were from one of the notable families in Japanese history, you had a family name, but most names in Japan originated from the Meiji era, when the Emperor decreed that all commoners would also have surnames. That’s part of why there are so many prosaic names like ~hashi/bashi (bridge); ~mura (village); ~kawa/gawa (river). The vast majority of Japanese who have the “same name” are probably not actually related. Way more than you probably want to know about [Japanese names](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_name). ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/92 "2007-08-29T12:43:47Z")
The surname ‘Naidoo/u’ probably means you can trace your ancestry back to Tamil Nadu- a south Indian state. Ethnically it used to mean the people were from the Telugu tribe (not sure if that’s the right word…) but now it’s more likely to be generically Tamil. It’s very common amongst African Asians and i don’t have a clue why. > **[Naidoo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naidoo)** > > Naidoo is a surname. It is an alternative spelling of Naidu. Notable people with the surname include: ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/93 "2007-08-29T13:52:43Z")
Turkish family names were required by law only in 1936, in the late Atatürk era. Iranian family names were decreed by Reza Shah about the same time. So people in those countries got busy making up names. A lot of the Ashkenazi surnames followed a similar process of origination in the late Middle Ages or early modern era when Jews who had traditionally not used family names began to be required to take them by European officialdom–which explains how names like Silverman, Goldberg, Feinstein, etc. were made up, often to express concepts of prosperity and beauty. In the Arab world, family names are optional - some families, especially noble or prominent ones, have always had them, others have gotten by fine without them. But they are becoming more common nowadays. Likewise, Tamils sometimes have family names, but traditionally get by without them. Tamil surnames are likely to be derived from a caste or ethnos as in **Sri Theo** ’s example, just as Arab surnames were originally mostly tribal names. Malay people still do not use family names at all. Arabs and Malays who don’t use family names use patronymics instead, like in Iceland. (But to be feminist I made my Arabic name a matronymic–sorry, Dad, I still love you) Jóhanna Annasdóttir ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/94 "2007-08-29T15:46:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sri Theo] The surname ‘Naidoo/u’ probably means you can trace your ancestry back to Tamil Nadu- a south Indian state. [/quote] Back to Andhra Pradesh, sometimes by way of Tamil Nadu. > [@](#): > > the Telugu tribe (not sure if that’s the right word…) but now it’s more likely to be generically Tamil. “Telegu” is a language, not the name of a tribe. The ethnic group (again, not a tribe) that speaks Telegu is called “Andhra.” And Andhra is a completely separate ethnicity from Tamil. (Tamils rarely use family names.) Note that the Wikipedia article you linked states that “Naidu” is used _in_ Tamil Nadu, but not by _Tamils_. It’s an Andhra name. > [@](#): > > It’s very common amongst African Asians and i don’t have a clue why. Well, probably because a lot of the Indians who settled in Africa were Telegu-speaking Andhras. _Added:_ Actually, the Wikipedia article answers your question – > [@](#): > > In South Africa a variant spelling Naidoo is used amongst its Telugu citizens. The usage does not denote Telugu ancestry any longer as intermarriage has diluted such identities. In Sri Lanka it is used amongst the Hill Country Tamils of Indian origin, and in Mauritius it is a common surname of Tamil populations. In Fiji, Trinidad and Tobago and Guyana it is a surname of the broader Indian diaspora. In Malaysia it is used by Telugus to denote their Telugu ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/95 "2007-08-29T15:57:22Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] As Chronos points out, profession names are common in many cultures. Using your examples: SMITH German: _Schmidt_ French: _LaForge, LeFevre_ Spanish: _Herrera_ [/QUOTE] Herrero, actually… the architect was Juan de Herrera and that “de” changes the meaning, as does the “-a” at the end. Cabeza de Vaca is not Vaca (Cowshead vs Cow). Again, not the same. Sastre is a real lastname, yes. Google Ines Sastre. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/96 "2007-08-29T18:58:35Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Sastre is a real lastname, yes. Google Ines Sastre. [/QUOTE] Spanish surnames, compared to English/German/French, seem to trend numerically away from the trade-based surnames and towards patronymics (e.g. _Gomez, Gonzalez, Guitierrez_, etc.). “Sastre” seems to me to be decidedly uncommon. Are there many other Spanish surnames in the same category as “Herrero” and “Sastre”? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Socks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Captain\_Socks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Socks)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/97 "2007-08-29T19:38:01Z")
What ancestry is Morris? What about Fennell? I would think Irish, as I am mostly Irish and full Irish on my mother’s side and Fennell is my mother’s maiden name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/98 "2007-08-29T19:56:33Z")
Morris is English, from the given name. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/99 "2007-08-29T19:56:49Z")
I knew a guy from India. His ethnic group didn’t have surnames until recently, and his grandfather was an engineer, so his last name was “Engineer”. Kinda cool, really. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899/100 "2007-08-29T20:02:36Z")
Engineer, Pilot, Shipchandler, Computerwallah, … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surnames-associated-with-a-particular-ancestry/416899.md?page=6)