# Surprise--I disagree with Marley's modding!! **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 22, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795 "2012-11-22T02:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/1 "2012-11-22T02:56:24Z")
No big deal, I wasn’t Officially Warned or anything, but I believe Marley misunderstood my “you” [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15723462&postcount=44) to mean \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally, rather the section of the GOP he may (or may not) have been representing in that thread. How would I know **Stratocaster** ’s voting practices or his support for various GOP candidates? (I suppose I could have cyber-stalked him and traced all his political posts for the past few years, but I didn’t.) Not only in that post linked here, but a few posts later (I think #41) I’m plainly using “you” to refer to all hard-line right-wing conservatives, not any one poster. You could construe my posts to argue that I’m actually directly addressing a particular poster, but you’d be wrong to do so in this instance. I don’t think that Mitt Romney had \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally in mind when (in my estimation) he outsmarted the right wing of the GOP to make the extreme candidates divvy up a majority of the primary votes to give him victories with a 35% or so share of the vote, so I don’t really understand how my parenthetical “not too tough” in referencing to “outsmarting you,” could be taken as a shot at \*\*Stratocaster \*\*rather than the GOP, when it was they he had outsmarted, and clearly not **Stratocaster**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/2 "2012-11-22T03:30:03Z")
You’re right. **Marley** should not have said you insulted **Stratocaster**. You actually insulted **OMG, ABC** in that post. You didn’t quote **Stratocaster’s** post, but here’s the full context of what you posted, with the insult part underlined for emphasis. > [@](#): > > People like OMG, ABC, for example, who LUUUUUURVED Romney in September and October, because he wasn’t Obama, were dismissive of him early on, when he was saying things less believable than Rick Perry and Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann about his policies. Back in the spring, it was all “Gotta defeat this Obama-lite dude” making it problematic after he became your candidate. I mean, you hardline rightwingers HATED Romney, didn’t trust him as far as you could throw him, and he outsmarted you (not too tough) by consistently winning the fraction of your party that was anywhere near the middle while the other six clowns divided up the majority of your party’s primary votes. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/3 "2012-11-22T03:39:25Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > No big deal, I wasn’t Officially Warned or anything, but I believe Marley misunderstood my “you” [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15723462&postcount=44) to mean \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally, rather the section of the GOP he may (or may not) have been representing in that thread. How would I know **Stratocaster** ’s voting practices or his support for various GOP candidates? (I suppose I could have cyber-stalked him and traced all his political posts for the past few years, but I didn’t.) Not only in that post linked here, but a few posts later (I think #41) I’m plainly using “you” to refer to all hard-line right-wing conservatives, not any one poster. > > You could construe my posts to argue that I’m actually directly addressing a particular poster, but you’d be wrong to do so in this instance. I don’t think that Mitt Romney had \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally in mind when (in my estimation) he outsmarted the right wing of the GOP to make the extreme candidates divvy up a majority of the primary votes to give him victories with a 35% or so share of the vote, so I don’t really understand how my parenthetical “not too tough” in referencing to “outsmarting you,” could be taken as a shot at \*\*Stratocaster \*\*rather than the GOP, when it was they he had outsmarted, and clearly not **Stratocaster**. LOL. You need to calm a bit. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/4 "2012-11-22T03:42:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’re right. **Marley** should not have said you insulted **Stratocaster**. You actually insulted **OMG, ABC** in that post. > > You didn’t quote **Stratocaster’s** post, but here’s the full context of what you posted, with the insult part underlined for emphasis. I think the underlined bit is clearly referring to the phrase “you right wingers” and it’s debatable if that refers to specific posters or just right wingers in general. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/5 "2012-11-22T05:11:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’re right. **Marley** should not have said you insulted **Stratocaster**. You actually insulted **OMG, ABC** in that post. > > You didn’t quote **Stratocaster’s** post, but here’s the full context of what you posted, with the insult part underlined for emphasis. I think the OP proposes a defensible interpretation of **prr** ’s post. Seriously. But that’s not really the issue. Pseudotriton: why not level up? Why not proofread your posts to avoid the possibility of violating the rule? That’s what I do anyway. It’s not unusual for me to add softeners or find something in my posts that might be taken the wrong way. It would be better to avoid political slams altogether of course, but if you must do so, put some care into it. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/6 "2012-11-22T11:02:40Z")
Seriously, better language skills on the OP’s side would have avoided the problem. Hardly cricket to blame **Marley** for that. If you don’t want to be misinterpreted, write better. Blaming others, when you’ve been imprecise, seems disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/7 "2012-11-22T12:31:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I think the OP proposes a defensible interpretation of **prr** ’s post. Seriously. > > But that’s not really the issue. Pseudotriton: why not level up? Why not proofread your posts to avoid the possibility of violating the rule? That’s what I do anyway. It’s not unusual for me to add softeners or find something in my posts that might be taken the wrong way. It would be better to avoid political slams altogether of course, but if you must do so, put some care into it. You and **Bob Ducca** (and IMO any reasonable fair-minded reader) will easily trace the antecedent out and find that the “you” \*\*Marley \*\*objects to is “you hardline rightwingers” so I don’t see where careful proofreading would have helped here. (I proofread for a living, btw, and I haven’t gotten fired yet, making me one of the few SDers who make that claim.) No, the worst I can see \*\*Marley \*\*reasonably doing would be asking me if I was perhaps targeting \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally with that general “you.” We all use “you” to refer to a large group of people on occasion here. Enforcement of the “no-personal-attacks” rule should be performed only IMO when the attack is clear, not when it’s dubious or ambiguous. Inquiry costs nothing. Otherwise, be very careful when using phrases such as “you know,” because you’re (I should say, one is) risking the accusation that one is telling people what they know and what they don’t know, and making personal remarks about them unjustly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/8 "2012-11-22T16:27:41Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I think the OP proposes a defensible interpretation of **prr** ’s post. Seriously. > > But that’s not really the issue. Pseudotriton: why not level up? Why not proofread your posts to avoid the possibility of violating the rule? That’s what I do anyway. It’s not unusual for me to add softeners or find something in my posts that might be taken the wrong way. It would be better to avoid political slams altogether of course, but if you must do so, put some care into it. It would have been very simple to say “those” instead of “you”, especially when the paragraph started with a reference to a specific poster on this MB. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/9 "2012-11-23T03:06:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > the paragraph started with a reference to a specific poster on this MB. And \*\*Marley \*\*cited me for referring to a different poster on this MB. Does that tell you \*anything \*about your (and his) determined over-reading of the post? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/10 "2012-11-23T03:33:15Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > And \*\*Marley \*\*cited me for referring to a different poster on this MB. Does that tell you \*anything \*about your (and his) determined over-reading of the post? I do not consider it determined over-reading. AFAIK, you are the only person in this thread who would characterize it in that manner. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > (I proofread for a living, btw… Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. _Shudder_. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/11 "2012-11-23T14:27:51Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I do not consider it determined over-reading. AFAIK, you are the only person in this thread who would characterize it in that manner. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. _Shudder_. “Determined over-reading” is my term. Yours was “defensible.” \*\*Marley’s \*\*was, well, stronger than that. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/12 "2012-11-23T14:46:46Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I think the OP proposes a defensible interpretation of **prr** ’s post. Seriously. > > Why not proofread your posts to avoid the possibility of violating the rule? From observing the OP’s activities in this forum, it appears to me that barely crossing the line and then arguing about the resulting moderation is a hobby of his. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/13 "2012-11-23T14:53:24Z")
Or not crossing the line and then arguing about the resulting moderation, in this instance. But thanks for your valuable contribution to the discussion, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/14 "2012-11-23T21:55:58Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > How would I know **Stratocaster** ’s voting practices or his support for various GOP candidates? Because he said very clearly that he’s a Republican. Here’s post #35, which appeared to be the post you were responding to: > [@Can a viable Republican candidate survive the primaries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-viable-republican-candidate-survive-the-primaries/641724/35): > > The GOP (my party) recognizes that the current formula won’t work and that the brand has serious issues. […] > We have to find ways of fixing the brand, and that means showing people that we actually care about their concerns. The Dems kick our asses at appearing to feel people’s pain. All this “party purity” is silliness in politics–and I’m not suggesting we become another Democratic party. But we can’t start by making people think we want to deport their grandmothers. There is a great argument (IMO) to be made that keeping Medicare and SS viable is only possible with reform. But nobody listens if it sounds like the basis for the reform is to “take back from the freeloaders.” > > I believe right now that the only candidate that can survive the primaries is someone who won’t win the general election. The demographics show it’s only getting tougher. The good news? That’s becoming blindingly obvious to all, and survival instincts will force us to change the formula. I gave you a note for post #37 (your first post in the thread). If you were not addressing **Stratocaster** I am not sure why you said “you” at all. The issue would be the same if you were taking a dig at **OMG A Black Conservative** (who you mentioned earlier by name). You went on to address **Stratocaster** as “you” in several subsequent posts: > [@Can a viable Republican candidate survive the primaries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-viable-republican-candidate-survive-the-primaries/641724/41): > > You can’t afford to abandon a sizeable fraction of your base. These “far-right loonies” supported Perry, Bachmann, Cain, et al in your primaries, when given a choice. > > You should abandon them, of course, and you will, eventually, but it takes a lot of guts to stand up to ridicule by Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump and Ann Coulter. You don’t have that kind of fortitude now. And for whatever it’s worth **Stratocaster** seemed to feel you were talking to him specifically: > [@Can a viable Republican candidate survive the primaries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-a-viable-republican-candidate-survive-the-primaries/641724/42): > > It has nothing to do with fortitude. It’s a practical matter. They aren’t going to play to a sector that ensures their defeat in the general election. They are discovering that this kind of ridicule could perhaps be beneficial, in that it distances them from orthodoxies that the public at large finds distasteful. > > Look, we may stumble, perhaps through a few cycles, trying to find out what the New World Order is. But IMO that stumbling won’t be because we think we weren’t conservative enough, or need a “real conservative” candidate, or any of that stuff. The Senate races showed how well that worked. If none of that was intended, so be it. As you said, you didn’t get an official warning. Just be more careful. In your post you said outsmarting “you” Republicans was not too hard. Two posts earlier another poster had identified himself as a Republican. So I think my reading was very reasonable. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I proofread for a living Which makes it kind of ironic that your defense of your comment is that you weren’t reading carefully. > [@](#): > > No, the worst I can see \*\*Marley \*\*reasonably doing would be asking me if I was perhaps targeting \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally with that general “you.” I didn’t think I needed to ask. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/15 "2012-11-23T22:26:57Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > And \*\*Marley \*\*cited me for referring to a different poster on this MB. Does that tell you \*anything \*about your (and his) determined over-reading of the post? See post #2 in this thread. There’s nothing wrong with the way I read your post. It can very reasonably be read to be an insult to **OMG, ABC**. In fact, it’s hard to make a case that it wasn’t an insult to him. And although **Stratocaster** wasn’t named in your post, the accusation was broad enough that it could have encompassed him as well. While many of us may share your views of certain posters on this MB, most of us can keep those personal opinions and insults out of our posts. It isn’t difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/16 "2012-11-24T02:25:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **Marley** : If you were not addressing Stratocaster I am not sure why you said “you” at all. I wonder if any of the Mods have spanked the hand of anyone who says, “You Christians” – and then go on to describe some hideous things that _some_ Christians have done. It seems the same guidelines should apply. > [@](#): > > **PRR** : Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber > (I proofread for a living, btw… > [@](#): > > **Marley** : Which makes it kind of ironic that your defense of your comment is that you weren’t reading carefully. Do proofreaders have to be on duty all the time, **Marley**? I think that PRR gave a _reason_ rather than an excuse. I was an English teacher for twenty years and I don’t bother with proofreading my own posts here and it shows. (I was also a proofreader before I became a teacher, and the work is not as easy as it might seem – especially when it is your own writing that you are proofing. (By “your” and “you” in that last sentence, I wasn’t referring to anyone other than proofreaders in general. Got it?) You, Marley, used to be a really interesting poster with points of view that I most often agreed with. Since you became a mod, it seems to me that your adamant defenses of your own “facts” have grown. You argue _opinions_ as if you have more knowledge of the truth than mere posters. And sometimes your own level of reading comprehension combined with your seeming stubbornness make you look arrogant and punitive. I’m not saying that you are wrong or right in your comments about PRR’s post. And I think it’s a good thing that you didn’t give him a warning. But after a while, some of us have come to expect negative feedback from you and that’s what we see whether you intended it or not. Maybe you do the same thing with PRR. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/17 "2012-11-24T03:45:33Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > And \*\*Marley \*\*cited me for referring to a different poster on this MB. Does that tell you \*anything \*about your (and his) determined over-reading of the post? > [@Zoe](#): > > Do proofreaders have to be on duty all the time, **Marley**? I think that PRR gave a _reason_ rather than an excuse. I opine that PRR gave it as neither reason nor excuse, but as a _credential_. Meaning, that PRR thought that his reading was the correct one and that Marley and others clearly misconstrued it. That’s eyebrow-raising. I can see and believe prr’s thought process and justification. But Marley’s and John Mace’s interpretation is also reasonable. Best practices dictate that some care be taken to not insult other members outside of the pit. A mod note would not seem to be out of line. And if this sort of thing became a habit, a warning would be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/18 "2012-11-24T15:42:50Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I don’t think that Mitt Romney had \*\*Stratocaster \*\*personally in mind when (in my estimation) he outsmarted the right wing of the GOP… He did too. I am front of mind in every candidate’s strategies. The sun also does NOT shine until I get up in the morning. FWIW, I thought the comment was more directed at OMG, but I did take it as directed to the Republicans posting in the thread, whomever he meant. But I accept prr’s explanation, plus I tend not to worry about such things anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/19 "2012-11-24T17:19:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I opine that PRR gave it as neither reason nor excuse, but as a _credential_. Right. > [@](#): > > I can see and believe prr’s thought process and justification. And so can I, although I’m not sure his explanation makes a lot of sense. But I don’t think my reading of the post was hasty or a “determined over-reading.” And if I see a post that seems ambiguous I don’t think I have to ask posters what they meant. I don’t mind doing that if it’s necessary, but longtime posters should know to steer clear of potential violations of the rules. If you are posting and decide to address a group of people as “you,” take care to make sure it does not sound like you’re talking about another poster. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795/20 "2012-11-24T21:28:24Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > No big deal, I wasn’t Officially Warned or anything, Then why make such a big deal about it? > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Enforcement of the “no-personal-attacks” rule should be performed only IMO when the attack is clear, not when it’s dubious or ambiguous. Ambiguity is why it drew a note rather than a warning. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprise-i-disagree-with-marleys-modding/641795.md?page=2)