# Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166 "2024-11-12T19:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 124
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2461 "2025-04-02T16:44:28Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > This is a bit harsh, but I have _long_ defined a Republican as “Somebody to whom (or to whose loved one(s)) it hasn’t happened yet.” Given how unpleasant they tend to be to their families, I question how many of them even _have_ loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2462 "2025-04-02T16:56:42Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > This is a bit harsh, but I have _long_ defined a Republican as “Somebody to whom (or to whose loved one(s)) it hasn’t happened yet.” We’re a looooong way from the days when Irving Kristol could define a Neoconservative as “a Liberal who has been mugged by reality.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2463 "2025-04-02T17:39:35Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Dig deeper, and I think it’s a matter of flattery. Republican politicos shout out how awesome the free market and business is: this fires up conservatives, lights up their synapses. Similarly, fury at Elizabeth Warren and further back Franklin Delano Roosevelt was _way_ disproportionate to their policy positions. Trump has made it crystal clear that he doesn’t believe the platitudes about how awesome the free market is. He believes all the worst things about the free market that a freshly-minted Marxist does, he just thinks they’re features instead of bugs. Trump doesn’t believe in the win-win, utility-maximizing transaction where the demand and supply curves cross, like the first day of Econ 101 (which is of course an abstraction with exceptions including externalities and imperfect information, as anyone who pays attention past that first day of Econ 101 learns). He believes every transaction has a definite winner and a loser, it’s just that he thinks himself shrewd and ruthless enough to always be the winner. It’s one of the sources of his success with the uneducated white lower class: they feel like they’re the definite loser of every transaction they’ve been in, and they think because Trump recognizes it that he’s on their side. It’s also why he has utter contempt for everyone he does business with. He doesn’t see their success and his as linked in any way (developer-contractor, employer-employee, etc.), he sees them as adversaries he’s already defeated. Trump also doesn’t believe in free trade, where each nation follows its comparative advantage and makes what it makes best while other nations make what they make best and everyone’s better off. (Which again is an abstraction, as a nation can collectively be better off from free trade and have sectors that aren’t better off, etc.) To Trump, every nation that sells us something has just f_cked us, and the more they sell us, the more they’ve f_cked us. And it is _nations_ to him: VW doesn’t sell cars to American individuals, Germany or the EU sells cars to the US. Nobody is a bigger believer in autarky than Trump, he’s more _juche_ than the Kims. Except his overweening need to be the winner means he wants not an autarkic America but an economically conquering America that sells massive amounts of goods to the world while buying nothing from abroad. However improbable or unsustainable that is. And that’s another source of his success with his base: people who remember, or were told by their parents, of the postwar years into the '50s when the US seemingly _did_ sell most everything to the rest of the world while buying little from abroad. It’s beyond their ken that such a situation did not exist before the destruction of the war and could not exist too much longer after the war once nations started rebuilding their industry and infrastructure. They’ve convinced themselves, probably because these circumstances prevailed in their childhoods or early adulthoods, that this transient postwar anomaly was somehow the normal situation. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2464 "2025-04-02T17:42:46Z")
Well said. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2465 "2025-04-02T19:49:52Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > And that’s another source of his success with his base: people who remember, or were told by their parents, of the postwar years into the '50s when the US seemingly _did_ sell most everything to the rest of the world while buying little from abroad. It’s beyond their ken that such a situation did not exist before the destruction of the war and could not exist too much longer after the war once nations started rebuilding their industry and infrastructure. They’ve convinced themselves, probably because these circumstances prevailed in their childhoods or early adulthoods, that this transient postwar anomaly was somehow the normal situation. Excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2466 "2025-04-02T20:34:10Z")
Yeah great post. But we should consider that what Trump “knows” about the economy is probably on par with that annoying barber or cab driver we’ve all met (whose solution to every complex issue starts with “all you gotta do is….”). However, the people backing his policies surely know better. What’s their angle? To me, it could only mean they are profiting handsomely from trading, volatility, etc. that allows them form a bigger wealth gap between them and the “have nots”, and be part of the oligarchy/kleptocracy. Ultimately Trump’s naïveté and delusion work together to give them power, rewrite the rules, and become part of the ruling class forever. I’d bet many of these people will immediately just stop paying taxes. Who’s going to go after them? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2467 "2025-04-02T20:49:44Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > However, the people backing his policies surely know better. Do they, though? Maybe some of them do, at least intellectually, but it’s really hard for anybody, particularly those with a vested interest, to truly internalize the concept that just because a situation has persisted for decades, it won’t necessarily continue going. Also, it is very understandable to put one’s own personal interests over that of the nation. It happened in Nazi era Germany as well. Several of the Generals and Ministers and other leading figures knew several of Hitler’s policies and directives made absolutely no sense. But very few of them were going to say that to his face. A guy could (and did) get disappeared that way. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2468 "2025-04-02T20:51:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Do they, though? No, his economics team is all hacks and lackeys. If they used to know better, they’ve forgotten what they knew to follow the party line. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2469 "2025-04-02T21:02:16Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > Except his overweening need to be the winner means he wants not an autarkic America but an economically conquering America that sells massive amounts of goods to the world while buying nothing from abroad. However improbable or unsustainable that is. Nice post. Here’s an additional twist. You might wonder why getting lots of goods from abroad in exchange for _fewer_ goods that we send them (a trade deficit) wouldn’t be a fantastic _bargain_ for the US. Especially when unemployment is low. You might even wonder how that is even _possible_ - why would foreigner’s do such a thing? You might get confused once you reflect that for every dollar sold on the foreign exchange market, a dollar must be purchased. What is going on here? If we’re buying more goods from abroad than we’re selling, we must be selling foreigners something to make up the difference. That something would be financial assets – stocks and bonds. We’re doing that because our domestic savings is less than our domestic investment, our domestic purchases of factories, machinery, office construction, R&D. In terms of math: Net exports == Exports - Imports = (S-I), aka the savings-investment gap. What is savings? Savings is the difference between output and consumption. What tariffs do is _reduce_ consumption, thereby increasing savings. You can also bring the savings-investment gap back into balance by sharply reducing investment. That happens during recession. A President who seriously wanted to improve US competitiveness without embracing industrial policy would focus on reducing the federal budget deficit by increasing taxes and reducing spending. That would increase national savings directly. Reagan did the opposite (tax cuts, plus a military buildup), which led to a degree of de-industrialization. China’s decision to buy lots of US bonds during the 1990s and early 2000s also hollowed us out. Other than Peter Navarro, Trump’s economic advisors probably grasp the above. But Navarro has the President’s ear, and his other advisors are chosen to flatter their mad king, tell him what they think he wants to hear. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2470 "2025-04-02T21:03:36Z")
I’d like you all to meet Peter Navarro. It’s worth the read: > **[Peter Navarro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Navarro)** > > Peter Kent Navarro (born July 15, 1949) is an American economist and author who is currently the senior counselor for trade and manufacturing for U.S. president Donald Trump. He previously served in the first Trump administration, first as the director of the White House National Trade Council, then as the director of the new Office of Trade and Manufacturing Policy. > Navarro is a professor emeritus of economics and public policy at the Paul Merage School of Business of the University of Califo... You can readily see Navarro’s fingerprints on pretty much everything in Trump 1.0 _and_ 2.0. “Far outside the mainstream” is often a euphemism for ‘bat-shit crazy.’ That’s how I’ve always read Navarro. He seems frankly criminal, too. Gee. I wonder why/how they picked him… ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2471 "2025-04-02T21:18:00Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@dasmoocher](#): > > > > a tornado created by the Democrats/Soros > > Even the Devil can quote scripture control weather for his own purposes. Wait…the Devil is Jewish?? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2472 "2025-04-02T21:18:19Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > You can readily see Navarro’s fingerprints on pretty much everything in Trump 1.0 _and_ 2.0. I prefer to think of the current Trump administration as a beta version; still lots of bugs to work out. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2473 "2025-04-02T21:23:30Z")
Luckily, a lot of Trump associates have their fingerprints already on file. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2474 "2025-04-02T21:28:55Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Wait…the Devil is Jewish?? > **[Jew or Not Jew: The Devil](http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=300)** > > JewOrNotJew.com: Is The Devil Jewish? “Verdict: Not a Jew.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2475 "2025-04-02T21:59:09Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > > [@Horatius](#): > > > > > [@dasmoocher](#): > > > > > > a tornado created by the Democrats/Soros > > > > Even the Devil can quote scripture control weather for his own purposes. > > Wait…the Devil is Jewish?? Sounds more Jewish in the original Hebrew: “ שטן” (śāṭān). ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2476 "2025-04-02T22:51:57Z")
In the Book of Job, God converses with someone called the Satan, implying it is a position like eg “Special Prosecutor” and not the name of a specific fallen angel. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2477 "2025-04-02T23:57:12Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (But, really, I notice the GOP are _SO_ hung up on the notion that everyone must show up in person to the job/polling place/etc. , no matter what burden it places. Almost pathologically.) How are they supposed to lock those shackles if the ~~slave~~ volunteer worker isn’t there physically? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2478 "2025-04-02T23:57:56Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > > [@Superdude](#): > > > > Wait…the Devil is Jewish?? > > [Jew or Not Jew: The Devil](http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?ID=300) > > “Verdict: Not a Jew.” Another thing he has in common with OJ Simpson. (deepish cut?) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2479 "2025-04-03T00:19:39Z")
Too soon. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2025, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/2480 "2025-04-03T11:40:43Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > In the Book of Job, God converses with someone called the Satan, implying it is a position like eg “Special Prosecutor” and not the name of a specific fallen angel. I can see the campaign posters **Lucifer for Satan: In your Heart, you _know_ he’s Right!** **Mephistopheles for Satan: Why pick the Lesser of Two Evils?** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=123) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=125)