# Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166 "2024-11-12T19:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 283
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5675 "2026-09-24T15:53:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > That describes my MAGA mom. She had difficultues over the years, and by God, she’s going to make sure other people suffer as well. It always felt to me like the feeling skates close to being pre-emptive sour grapes. Sort of a “I had to suffer, so others in similar situations should too, or everything is unfair and they didn’t earn what they have.” kind of mindset. Which is absurd, but I have no doubt many people think that way. Life isn’t fair, people aren’t equal except theoretically under the law, and outcomes are going to vary due to a million reasons that differ for each person. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5676 "2026-09-24T16:20:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I do run into some MAGA acquaintences who get upset over losing friends to something stupid like “politics.” They’re probably getting lots of pats on the back from like-minded sorts on social media - like antivaxers who’ve attained martyr status after refusing to get vaccinated, and then been refused access to their newborn grandchildren by the parents. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5677 "2026-09-24T17:40:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > There’s a certain sentiment among a lot on that side of the aisle that “If I had to suffer to pay my student loans for 20 years, so should they.” and they’ll dig in _hard_ to prevent anyone else from getting any benefits they didn’t get. It’s not about “is this a valid and useful use of public funds or public power”, it’s “Someone is getting something that I didn’t, and I don’t like it.”. > > Which is something I don’t get. I’ve paid my student loans off, and if they had loan forgiveness happen now, I wouldn’t be butthurt about it; I’d recognize that it could be life changing for a lot of people. I mean that very argument has been advanced on this pretty liberal-leaning board. “I had to do it, why do they get a free pass”, is a pretty common bit of resentful selfishness on both sides of the aisle. Even if it rather more prominent on one than the other, like anti-vaxxer madness it is one of those positions where bi-partisanship can blossom 🙄. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5678 "2026-09-24T18:44:36Z")
Ultimately, all these various behaviors and opinions are simple manifestations of a deep-seated, perhaps even unconscious selfishness. It’s a worldview that says at base: “I matter; nobody else does.” Well, they’re slowly noticing that when their ordinary garden variety RW selfishness comes up against the fulminant raging seflishness of narcissists and Fascist leaders, well, they’re gonna end up empty handed as everything is taken from them. Serves then right. Shame the rest of us are not immune from the depredations they deliberately pulled down upon themselves. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5679 "2026-09-24T19:49:57Z")
I don’t know if that’s quite it; I think there’s a certain expectation, realistic or not, that government policies should be “_Fair_”. Meaning that they apply to everyone equally. Something like loan forgiveness trips two different wires for that sort of unfairness; it’s only for people who went to college, and only for those with currently outstanding loans. So a lot of people feel like this is unfair. There’s also the sort of unfairness that’s sort of the flip side- “why should I pay for _that_ guy’s healthcare? He does extreme sports and a lot of drugs.” with the thinking being that he probably does deserve healthcare, but _I_ should not be the one to pay for it, in light of his poor decision making. Sub in “smokes”, “is fat”, etc… for “extreme sports and a lot of drugs”. Same goes for stuff like various welfare programs- It’s the individualist view clashing with things that by necessity have to be at least somewhat collective. Only the very rich could pay for any reasonable amount of non-routine, non-preventative healthcare without insurance. Which is a collective effort, whether people want to acknowledge it or not. Just because it’s for-profit doesn’t change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5680 "2026-09-24T19:58:51Z")
Meh, everybody gets that. But “fair” is ridiculously subjective and not worth considering much of the time. It’s clear there are a non-negligible number of people who think any Brown or Black person being treated the same as a White person is unfair. Donald Trump clearly has his own ideas on what is “fair” to him or not, based on how many times a day he whines about how unfairly he’s treated. To many people, “fair” means staying within the “natural” order and the ‘undeserving’ not getting anything. They don’t care equal treatment at all, except in the “some people are more equal than others” sense. And somehow, for most of those assholes, the notion of ‘deserving’ happens to align with being the same race, religion, political party, sexual orientation, etc as they are. Treating outsiders differently is natural and fair to them. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5681 "2026-09-24T20:15:21Z")
Farmers who receive tons of government relief think it’s unfair that an inner city single mom gets aid. These dipshits don’t know what “fair” even means. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5682 "2026-09-24T20:34:26Z")
Thank you. Exactly! Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5683 "2026-09-24T21:12:58Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Farmers who receive tons of government relief think it’s unfair that an inner city single mom gets aid. These dipshits don’t know what “fair” even means. Which is odd considering food aid benefits the people making food. > [@bump](#): > > I don’t know if that’s quite it; I think there’s a certain expectation, realistic or not, that government policies should be “_Fair_”. Meaning that they apply to everyone equally. Something like loan forgiveness trips two different wires for that sort of unfairness; it’s only for people who went to college, and only for those with currently outstanding loans. I try to emphasize the unfair nature of student loans. We set up a system where young people are told college in their best (sometimes only) route to economic success, make these loans available with no consideration for the earning power of their majors, and on top of everything else make those loans impossible to discharge under circumstances many other loans could be discharged. i.e. We’re setting up these kids to start their lives in massive debt. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5684 "2026-09-24T21:17:36Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We’re setting up these kids to start their lives in massive debt. Which is coincidentally very convenient for fostering worker docility and risk aversion. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5685 "2026-09-24T21:26:32Z")
In most Americans informal knee-jerk definition “fair” means “advantageous for me”. They’d perhaps argue back against that idea if they carefully thought about it. But their unconscious reactive emotional response amounts to “Fair is when it’s to my advantage. Unfair is when it’s to somebody else’s advantage.” The real trouble comes in when they don’t recognize that since all the other somebody elses think the same way, it amounts to a neutral stance. Nope, in their view, they’re entitled to think “Fair is when it’s to my advantage. Unfair is when it’s to somebody else’s advantage.” But nobody else is entitled to think the same thing. Or at least nobody else different from me. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5686 "2026-09-24T21:50:21Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Farmers who receive tons of government relief think it’s unfair that an inner city single mom gets aid. @Odesio Emphasized how it’s even worse than what you stated. Let me rephrase as: Farmers who receive tons of government relief think it’s unfair that an inner city single mom gets aid to buy the food that same farmer grows. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5687 "2026-09-24T22:55:44Z")
I really wish Democrats would start responding to accusations of and questions about socialism by saying “ I think Medicare and Social Security are great programs and I will always defend them”. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5688 "2026-09-24T23:06:49Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In most Americans informal knee-jerk definition “fair” means “advantageous for me”. They’d perhaps argue back against that idea if they carefully thought about it. But their unconscious reactive emotional response amounts to “Fair is when it’s to my advantage. Unfair is when it’s to somebody else’s advantage.” I don’t think that’s quite it. At it’s core, it’s a lack of empathy. I don’t mean these people don’t care about others, my MAGA mother can be very genrous and understanding, but rather they have a difficult time seeing things from the point of view of those they share little in common with. So a rural American might understand why Farmer Bob needs a subsidy to not grow corn but balks at one of those l lazy, urban welfare queens getting food stamps. (Of course it’s more complicated than that. Racism and other bigoted beliefs certainly play a role.) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5689 "2026-09-24T23:55:27Z")
That doesn’t make a lot of sense, either. Many, if not most (in some communities), of those rural Americans ARE on TANF or other assistance. They **know** it’s ok for them (because they’re good and righteous or whatever) but not for them so-and-so’s (who happen to be the wrong color or live in the wrong place or have the wrong religion). That pretty much describes the entirety of southern Arkansas. And they’re struggling to figure out health care 'cause they didn’t figure they would also get screwed over by the people who told them exactly what they would do to Medicaid and rural hospitals. Good for me but not for thee literally is their concept of “fair” ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5690 "2026-09-25T00:11:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > In most Americans informal knee-jerk definition “fair” means “advantageous for me” That’s quite a generalization, and a bullshit one at that. The attitude is no more common in Americans than anywhere else, and it certainly doesn’t represent “most” Americans. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5691 "2026-09-25T05:22:01Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Ultimately, all these various behaviors and opinions are simple manifestations of a deep-seated, perhaps even unconscious selfishness. It’s a worldview that says at base: “I matter; nobody else does.” Now there’s a song for that: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/54yHWId6Uu4/maxresdefault.jpg "I’m The Good Guy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54yHWId6Uu4) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5692 "2026-09-25T10:17:12Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I do run into some MAGA acquaintences who get upset over losing friends to something stupid like “politics.” As if their votes have no real meaning beyond one team or another winning. I think for some of them that really is it - Republicans/MAGA/Trump are “their team” and they want to win every time. They don’t make the connection between “their team” and the consequences of their votes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5693 "2026-09-25T10:44:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@bobot](#): > > > > Farmers who receive tons of government relief think it’s unfair that an inner city single mom gets aid. These dipshits don’t know what “fair” even means. > > Which is odd considering food aid benefits the people making food. Yes. Food stamps are actually a form of support for agriculture. Which is why SNAP is administered by the US Department of Agriculture. But Republican farmers don’t make the connection. > [@Odesio](#): > > > [@bump](#): > > > > who went to college, and only for those with currently outstanding loans. > > I try to emphasize the unfair nature of student loans. We set up a system where young people are told college in their best (sometimes only) route to economic success, make these loans available with no consideration for the earning power of their majors, and on top of everything else make those loans impossible to discharge under circumstances many other loans could be discharged. i.e. We’re setting up these kids to start their lives in massive debt. For the people making money off those loans that’s a feature, not a bug. Meanwhile, other folks are whining that young people aren’t buying houses or starting families. Well, yeah - because the money that would allow them to do that is going towards their massive debt. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2026, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/5694 "2026-09-25T11:30:51Z")
You misunderstand me. I said “Americans” not because I think that behavior is uniquely American. I said “Americans” because a) that’s the crowd this thread is talking about; and b) I don’t know enough non-Americans, nor enough about their all their various cultures to generalize beyond the sample I do know. You’re surely right that human nature is universal. But culture gets a look-in too. As to experiences. I spent ~20 years as a labor union volunteer. Both in leadership roles and as part of the team that creates, negotiates, and administers compliance with the union’s contract w the company. Through several iterations of that contract with some fairly substantive changes at each turn. IME, folks would carefully dig through all the info we put out to find something that they thought would disadvantage them and their particular circumstances or pet issues. And what terminology did they use to lodge a complaint? Almost universally it was “That’s not fair!” e.g. If everyone was getting a 5% raise, the senior well paid folks would say “It’s not fair; we deserve the lion’s share. We’ve suffered longer. And besides, we’re senior, and everything should be on a seniority basis. _That’s_ what’s fair.” And the junior starving folks would say “That’s not fair; the senior folks who already make 4x what we do get a $20/hour raise and we get $5? And we’re the ones on food stamps! Fair would get us out of poverty first, then give everyone a raise.” Of course if we gave everybody a $30/hour raise the whining would be about how unfair the resulting percentage changes were. Unsurprisingly, if we were stuck dealing with pay cuts in hard times, not raises in good times, the volume of complaints skyrocketed. But the substance remains the same: “I’m being harmed and by (my) definition that’s not fair!” I view all this as a subset or special case of the well-known human psychological trait known as **[Loss aversion - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion)**. In short, an unexpected $5 loss _feels_ far worse than an unexpected $5 windfall _feels_ good. And most people do a lot of their thinking actually with their feelings. Bottom line: I may have experienced an unusually selfish and entitled set of Americans. But I’m pretty confident they’re little different from everyone else you might find at your local grocery or living up & down your street. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=282) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=284)