# Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166 "2024-11-12T19:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/621 "2024-12-04T02:28:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You now tried to claim I was editing posts. You’re a fucking liar. I have never accused you of editing posts. I don’t know what you think you’re achieving by butting into an ongoing discussion by claiming that people didn’t say what they said, then lying and backpedaling when I called you on it. What you ARE doing is leaving out context. You snipped my quote to delete the part about “suspending” birth certificates to try and make it look like I was lying about what you said (which is at the very least a violation of the SPIRIT of board rules about quoting other posters), and just now you omitted the beginning of our conversation to make it look like I attacked you out of nowhere. Here’s where you butted in to an existing discussion (all bolding mine); > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You didn’t ask me but I’ll attempt an answer. > > All politics ultimately come down to who has power and is willing to use it. > > If Trump does something that is illegal, will Congress act by impeaching him and removing him from office? With a Republican majority in both halves of Congress, I feel the answer is they will not. > > Similarly, I feel the Republican majority in the Supreme Court will not issue a ruling against Trump. > > Project 2025 is all about removing officials from the federal bureaucracy that are not loyal to the Republican party. > > So Trump can issue an executive order declaring that the federal government can review birth certificates and suspend any that it feels are questionable. Congress and the Supreme Court will whistle and look over their shoulders while he does so. The federal bureaucracy will follow Trump’s orders. > > Some states governments will be happy with Trump’s actions. Others will strongly oppose them. But as I noted, politics is about who has more power. And states do not have more power than the federal government. Trump will, without any awareness of the irony, cite the precedent of Eisenhower and Faubus. To which I responded; > [@Smapti](#): > > Remember - if there is no birth certificate then there is no proof of parentage, which makes the child a foundling and therefore a US citizen by default. This is not a course of action Trump or Republicans would pursue. You then decided to double down; > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “No, Mr Rodriguez, your birth certificate still exists so you are not entitled to foundling status. However your birth certificate has been suspended so you are not entitled to any of the civil rights which would be due to you as an American citizen while it is suspended. These civil rights will return to you when the review process is completed at some unspecified point of time of our choosing. To which I asked; > [@Smapti](#): > > What does “your birth certificate is suspended” even mean? It’s a medical document, not a driver’s license. To which you tripled down; > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Whatever the Republicans want it to mean. At this point I reminded you that this wasn’t even something Republicans were talking about doing and was a pure hypothetical that people upthread invented. > [@Smapti](#): > > Just to be clear - this is an entirely hypothetical scenario and not something that Trump or Republicans have stated an intent of doing. To which you threw out a strawman; > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Claiming birth certificates are forgeries is something Trump and the Republicans have already done. > > Obviously at this point it’s only hypothetical that they will do it a second time. And.I pointed out that this was a strawman; > [@Smapti](#): > > We’re not talking about “claiming birth certificates are forgeries”. We’re talking about a fantasy scenario where Trump declares that states no longer have the authority to issue birth certificates and/or claims he can “suspend” them, because people on this board want to be oppressed so badly that we’re now making up things to be afraid of. Amd that’s where you decided to pretend that you didn’t say what you said, and that this was a conversation only between the two of us and not something you butted into without being asked and that I was making things up about you. Either quit lying about a conversation anyone can read or fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/622 "2024-12-04T02:35:13Z")
I just want to say that I feel honored being lumped with Little\_Nemo ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/623 "2024-12-04T02:38:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re a fucking liar. _I have never accused you of editing posts._ I don’t know what you think you’re achieving by butting into an ongoing discussion by claiming that people didn’t say what they said, then lying and backpedaling when I called you on it. > > What you ARE doing is leaving out context. _You snipped my quote to delete the part_ about “suspending” birth certificates to try and make it look like I was lying about what you said, and just now you omitted the beginning of our conversation to make it look like I attacked you out of nowhere. Maybe the problem here is you don’t understand what the word editing means. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/624 "2024-12-04T02:43:35Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I’m really getting tired with the arguing about arguing. I agree on that. I would much rather be discussing the substance of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/625 "2024-12-04T02:47:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe the problem here is you don’t understand what the word editing means If you’re using “edit” to mean “to omit”, then by that definition you DID edit my post, because you left out the part of the sentence that showed you were lying when you claimed you didn’t say what you said. Dig up, stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/626 "2024-12-04T02:50:06Z")
So the part where you say you have never accused me of editing a post; is that still good? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/627 "2024-12-04T02:51:06Z")
I never accused you of changing the content of my posts, only of omitting part of what I said. If you’re claiming that that’s not what you meant when you said “editing”, then that’s just another backpedal on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/628 "2024-12-04T02:59:46Z")
Okay, that one wasn’t even coherent. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/629 "2024-12-04T03:02:00Z")
Sounds like I’m not the one who has trouble understanding what words mean. Let’s adjourn this sidebar until you take some remedial reading comprehension classes. (That means I’m done talking to you for now.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/630 "2024-12-04T03:10:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That means I’m done talking to you for now. Oh no. Was it something I said? Or was it something I didn’t say but that you thought I said? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/631 "2024-12-04T03:47:06Z")
Thank you both for taking a breather. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/632 "2024-12-04T08:33:08Z")
Someone on this board said his son is getting them. Do a search for “seminars”. I think someone else said in the same thread that he had gotten them when on active duty. When I was in, back in '71-'75, it was covered near the end of basic training. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/633 "2024-12-04T08:50:52Z")
I was in the Air Force from 1976 to 1980, and may have been mentioned, but never explained at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/634 "2024-12-04T14:19:01Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > Someone on this board said his son is getting them. Do a search for “seminars”. I think someone else said in the same thread that he had gotten them when on active duty. > > When I was in, back in '71-'75, it was covered near the end of basic training. That would be me. Incoming officers are being reminded about every couple of weeks about the difference between legal and illegal orders. I have no clue about enlisted, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/635 "2024-12-04T15:45:29Z")
Unfortunately over the Thanksgiving holidays I met some young officers (ages 25-30, one is a relative of mine) and based on their political conversations I have no doubt that they will conceive of every MAGA order as lawful. And one of them is a JAG. Another is a cybersecurity specialist. 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/636 "2024-12-04T16:03:33Z")
“_‘Lawful’_? I thought you said we must obey every ‘Awful’ order!” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/637 "2024-12-04T19:14:34Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > What I _do_ remember is, as part of my JPME I qualification, reading guidance that stated, in essence “all orders issued by the National Command Authority are presumed to be lawful.” The NCA being the President and the Secretary of Defense (and to recap, the current pick is a white supremacist Fox “News” host with Christian nationalist tattoos). > > So… yeah. Not holding my breath that the military will act as a bastion against Trump once he purges the first round of general or flag officers to offer even the slightest push back. and > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Unfortunately over the Thanksgiving holidays I met some young officers (ages 25-30, one is a relative of mine) and based on their political conversations I have no doubt that they will conceive of every MAGA order as lawful. > > And one of them is a JAG. Another is a cybersecurity specialist. Anyone assuming that the US military will act as a check on Trump’s worst schemes is living in a dream world. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/638 "2024-12-04T19:43:00Z")
That does give me pause for thought, but you can’t deny that many (someone said 40%) of service members are brown and black, so they may find it abhorrent to turn on their own kind. The armed services are essentially large logistics organizations with very sharp points. It would take only a few disgruntled members in key positions to severely impede operations. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/639 "2024-12-04T19:54:08Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > That does give me pause for thought, but you can’t deny that many (someone said 40%) of service members are brown and black, so they may find it abhorrent to turn on their own kind. But we’ve also see from the election that a lot of that community _don’t_ see them as “their own kind”. They make distinctions between legal and illegal, and also recent vs. older immigrants. And it won’t start with them shooting people. It will just be them providing “security” while civilian police round up some suspects. Once those people are on the busses, the military won’t have much more to do with them, or where they end up. It’s only after they get used to stage one that they’ll be moved to stage two, three, or four, which get progressively worse. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/640 "2024-12-04T20:01:23Z")
> [@Mr.Duality](#): > > That does give me pause for thought, but you can’t deny that many (someone said 40%) of service members are brown and black, so they may find it abhorrent to turn on their own kind. Ehh. One of the things that I’ve heard about Marine boot camp is that the first thing they do to a recruit is psychologically break them down into a metaphorical lump of clay, then build them into a MARINE. I have not heard of the Army or Air Force doing this, and if the Navy tried it on me, it didn’t take (when I was named Company Honorman, I was asked to submit a short essay on what _patriotism_ meant to me. My initial response was that it was famously the last refuge of scoundrels. I was _not_ named Honorman for the entire boot camp that session). Anyway, I’d be careful about making assumptions regarding what servicemembers would consider “abhorrent.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=33)