# Surprises coming for voters for the Leopards-Eating-Faces Party **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 12, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166 "2024-11-12T19:54:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/141 "2024-11-14T13:07:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My guess is never. They had four years of Trump in office and then four years of Trump out of office. If they didn’t figure out they were being conned in all that time, they never will. Well, Trump campaigned on a long list of made-up problems, so fixing them is incredibly easy. And that gives the Trumpers the out they need. “Oh, sure, he didn’t fix the housing crisis, reduce food costs, deport millions of people, or end the war in Ukraine, but that’s because he was so focused on ending the migrant caravans, protecting our cats from Haitians, ending forced transgendering of children, and eliminating “woke” in schools. So, he gets a passing grade!” ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/142 "2024-11-14T13:59:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I am glad I am not a senior US military officer now. This is going to be a very severe test and it will only take a few percent of officers turning trumpist to turn DoD inside out. > […] > To the degree some officer has spent 8-12 years drinking that firehose of Kool-aid they may well most sincerely believe that defending trump & MAGAtism _is_ defending the Constitution. I apologize if this is a hijack, but I’ve long wondered about the strain of hardcore trumpism that I understand runs through at least the rank-and-file of the US military, despite all the insults both large and small trump has made toward members of the military. Now that the trump admin 2.0 is talking about purging military leaders that are not trump toadys, I’m actively getting scared. Maybe they can disregard his insult to McCain as a mere attack on a political rival, and stuff like the ‘suckers and losers’ comment as second-hand hearsay. But 4 generals who served under trump, Kelly, Milley, Mattis and McMasters, now speak out in no uncertain terms about how unfit and dangerous he is, and trump has in turn called them all kinds of insulting things. Why aren’t these generals’ warnings, and trump’s insults toward them, taken more seriously by lower-ranking members of the military? I would think that would cut through the ‘firehose of Kool-aid’ as effectively as anything could. Is there some mental or philosophical divide between high-ranking military leaders and the rank-and-file military? I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/143 "2024-11-14T14:16:40Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Is there some mental or philosophical divide between high-ranking military leaders and the rank-and-file military? I hate to go full “red shirt”, but my feeling is a lot of the rank and file these days are bullies. They got into the military not so they could serve their country, but to killkillKILL those that they deemed deserving of it. The same mindset that got four innocent kids killed at Kent State. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/144 "2024-11-14T14:17:36Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > However the 22nd Amendment doesn’t require any kind of trial or finding of fact. It’s not that Trump is prohibited from running again, and could simply ignore the prohibition. He simply does not meet basic elegibility. To pull it off, at a minimum he’d have to get a majority of states to put him on the ballot even though he doesn’t meet eligibility requirements, and states aren’t as pliable as Congresscritters. I wouldn’t want to 100% depend on it, but I doubt he’ll meet the basic eligibility requirement of being alive in 4 years. If he passes that bar, I strongly suspect he’ll get removed via the 25th. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/145 "2024-11-14T14:28:19Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I doubt he’ll meet the basic eligibility requirement of being alive in 4 years. Are you kidding? The MAGAnuts will prop his desiccated corpse in front of a camera. When his arm falls off on camera, the base will cry “fake news”, or “masterful gambit, sir!” All Hail trump! Am I joking? I’m not saying. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/146 "2024-11-14T14:28:40Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Is there some mental or philosophical divide between high-ranking military leaders and the rank-and-file military? I don’t get it. It’s in the OP. Surely the leopards won’t eat their faces. Our brains are wired in such a way that so-called “higher” thought does not serve to take input data and through a logical process come to some conclusion. We, instead, use them to rationalize decisions we have largely already made at a subconscious level. It takes considerable training and practice to recognize and combat that sort of thing, and most of us still fail a good portion of the time even when we understand it is happening. The rank and file are just like the rest of us - mostly rationalizing decisions they have already made, whether or not they make sense. And their pre-existing biases are largely in line with the demographics they come from, which are largely socially conservative and which largely de-value civic education and duty in favor of public displays of nationalism masquerading as a form of faux-patriotism ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/147 "2024-11-14T14:39:39Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s in the OP. Surely the leopards won’t eat their faces. > […] > It takes considerable training and practice to recognize and combat that sort of thing, and most of us still fail a good portion of the time even when we understand it is happening. Yeah, I get the leopards and faces thing when it comes to the ordinary citizen, but I would think that within the military there’d be a high level of respect toward higher-ranking officers, to the point that a top level general (let alone 4 of them), in a position to know the truth, speaking out against trump, would cut through the propaganda and be listened to and believed. At least as well as anything could. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/148 "2024-11-14T14:41:27Z")
Nah, the rank and file are trained to follow orders, not to think critically. They do respect higher-ranking officers. But that extends only to following their orders, not to taking on personal beliefs. Like I said, they’re no different from the rest of us. The general public has seen and heard the same high ranking military officers (among other highly respected public figures) say the same things and just ignored them. The officer class, on the other hand, are given training and education to think critically and consider their duty to the Constitution and the democratic principles we purportedly espouse. And many still don’t. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/149 "2024-11-14T14:43:33Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Is there some mental or philosophical divide between high-ranking military leaders and the rank-and-file military? I think that a lot of it is the same divide that is seen in many other occupations , where the lower-ranked people believe they know better than those in charge. They don’t really care about Trump insulting the generals - they don’t have any actual respect for the officers. What I don’t understand is why they don’t seem to care about Trump’s attitude toward all military members - perhaps they don’t believe the people who have reported that he said " “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?" to Kelly ( whose son was killed in Afghanistan) on Memorial Day in Arlington. Or those who reported that he referred to military personnel as “suckers” and “losers” because they were killed. But when he said “He’s not a war hero ” “I like people who weren’t captured ” , that was on video. It didn’t depend on believing that someone was telling the truth about a private conversation. It wasn’t limited to a particular person - and I don’t understand why so many were OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/150 "2024-11-14T14:48:38Z")
One thing not mentioned that I think is possible is that states with R legislatures may move to follow Arizona’s lead and attempt to pass laws declaring that all the state’s electoral votes go to Trump or his successor, regardless of what the voters want. And as far as I can tell, it would be perfectly legal for them to do so. Deep R states may not bother, but swing states whose votes are in play and whose legislatures lean R, like Michigan, might. Who knows, even deep-red states might like the idea of not having to worry about what those pesky voters want. So if you are a red voter and you find your vote for president no longer counts, you might feel a bit of a pang. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/151 "2024-11-14T14:50:55Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Nah, the rank and file are trained to follow orders, not to think critically. They do respect higher-ranking officers. But that extends only to following their orders, not to taking on personal beliefs. > […] > The officer class, on the other hand, are given training and education to think critically and consider their duty to the Constitution and the democratic principles we purportedly espouse. And many still don’t. I guess so… And now, if the trump admin is successful in removing non-loyal military leaders and replacing them with Michael Flynn-style trumpists, trump will basically own the military. That is terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/152 "2024-11-14T14:57:21Z")
I mean… how many vocal evangelicals push for the Ten Commandments to be publicly displayed while simultaneously trying to figure out how to violate as many of them on a daily basis as possible? And while ignoring religious leaders they nominally respect and to whom they purportedly listen? People are fundamentally irrational (and rationalizing) like that. As long as we’re human, there will always be people shocked to find their own faces getting eaten, even when you point out the leopard’s jaws are so wide open they can see tonsils. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/153 "2024-11-14T15:37:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If you’re talking about the 14th Amendment ineligibility, I wasn’t. I was talking about states allowing non-NBCs and other ineligibles running for President and that Congress has made it so that they themselves have no power questioning slates sent in by the states. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > However the 22nd Amendment doesn’t require any kind of trial or finding of fact. It’s not that Trump is prohibited from running again, and could simply ignore the prohibition. He simply does not meet basic elegibility. And I have pointed out, there seem to be no mechanisms in place that would actually stop him. Maybe a few states have a law that those ineligible cannot appear on the ballot but even that just got thrown out by SCOTUS and there needs to be some sort of Federal ineligibility law to keep someone off the ballot … but that doesn’t exist. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > To pull it off, at a minimum he’d have to get a majority of states to put him on the ballot even though he doesn’t meet eligibility requirements, and states aren’t as pliable as Congresscritters. See above. States will have a harder time - if even possible - to keep people off the ballot. Thank you SCOTUS. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > That’s not to say this entire chain of events is _impossible_ but it requires a truly massive number of actors not to just passively acquiesce, but to collectively decide to shoot the Constitution in the head. It’s not acquiescence. It’s that there is nothing in place to stop it. Trump decides to run again. Who can legally stop him? States? Maybe, I’m not sure anymore. Congress? They count votes and act only administratively. Could he be denied being administered the oath? Maybe but then what happens when everyone refuses but then some notary public in Florida administers it? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/154 "2024-11-14T16:04:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Maybe a few states have a law that those ineligible cannot appear on the ballot but even that just got thrown out by SCOTUS and there needs to be some sort of Federal ineligibility law to keep someone off the ballot … but that doesn’t exist. Of course it exists! It’s the 22nd Amendment! Of course it doesn’t literally spell out that the person can’t be on the ballot, but it doesn’t need to, because a ballot with an ineligible candidate would be _prima facie_ unconstitutional and easily challenged on those grounds. To defeat that challenge, a large number of election officials and judges would effectively have to nullify the 22nd Amendment. It’s possible things may get to that point, nobody could really say, but it’s absolutely not as simple as Trump saying “I dare you to stop me.” A large number of people would need to do some highly unconstitutional things. Of course all this is out the window if Trump simply controls the military and commands it to do his bidding. That’s a complete unknown that’s hard to forecast or think about, so that discussion isn’t interesting to me. My underlying assumption is it would be incredibly hard to sustain a government with _no_ constitutional legitimacy at all, and Republicans have plenty easier options when it comes to holding onto power. So yeah. I’m not saying Trump absolutely won’t hold executive power on Jan 21st, 2028. But if it does it won’t be the result of running a re-election campaign, winning, and being certified by Congress. It won’t be the result of any recognized Constitutional proceedings, It will be something we’ve never seen before. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/155 "2024-11-14T16:10:39Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The MAGAnuts will prop his desiccated corpse in front of a camera. This reminds me of a short film I saw at Filmex in 1982. (It must have been that year, as I went to see _Das Boot_ there.) Promoters were putting Elvis Presley on tour… five years after he’d died. They had Elvis propped up on a stage with a guitar slung over him. After nothing happens, they fire some pyrotechnics at the sides of the stage. The promoters admit that the tour didn’t well, so they had a new plan. They displayed a blister pack with a finger in it, called ‘Piece of Elvis’. They were selling Elvis’s body parts. ‘But what happens when you have sold all of Elvis?’ The promoters said they have another performer, and throw the corpse of Jimi Hendrix on the table. Man, I’d like to see that film again. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/156 "2024-11-14T16:16:25Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Of course it exists! It’s the 22nd Amendment! Of course **it doesn’t literally spell out** that the person can’t be on the ballot, but it doesn’t need to, because a ballot with an ineligible candidate would be _prima facie_ unconstitutional and easily challenged on those grounds. To defeat that challenge, a large number of election officials and judges would effectively have to nullify the 22nd Amendment. [emphasis added] Have you not been paying attention to the current Supreme Court? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/157 "2024-11-14T16:28:45Z")
I’m not worried about the prospect of a third term of the Orange Bozo. Not because he wouldn’t want to, not because I trust the collection of thugs on the Supreme Court- but because one of two things will happen before 2028: Donald will be dead or he will be so demented that he can’t speak a coherent sentence (of course, it’s debatable whether he can now). Not to mention, this term is going to hurt everybody if he does half the crazy shit that he wants to do. People will long for the good old days of the Biden administration. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/158 "2024-11-14T16:32:54Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Of course it exists! It’s the 22nd Amendment! Of course it doesn’t literally spell out that the person can’t be on the ballot, but it doesn’t need to, because a ballot with an ineligible candidate would be _prima facie_ unconstitutional and easily challenged on those grounds. To defeat that challenge, a large number of election officials and judges would effectively have to nullify the 22nd Amendment. I know for a fact that non-NBCs have run for President and appeared on state ballots. Plus add to it that states can no longer prevent non-eligible candidates from appearing on the ballot. You seem to think that the Constitution is self-executing … it’s not. Colorado has a state law eliminating ineligible people from running. You saw how well that worked out. So explain to me how and at what point the 22nd Amendment would be invoked to keep someone ineligible from being elected. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/159 "2024-11-14T16:36:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > No, they’re not. They’re in the “How do I win the current election I’m facing” incredibly short term. And the answer to that, thanks to the masses of the Republican base, is now “do Trump’s bidding”. And those who haven’t done his bidding in the last few days or weeks will find out the consequences in the next election. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And also keep in mind that a major chunk of the Republicans are evangelical Christians who think that the end of the world is coming soon, and that there’s no future on Earth to worry about. They genuinely don’t think there’s any point in long term planning or worrying about future consequences. There was a time when Democrats were convinced that Reagan was the problem and we needed to direct all our efforts at getting Reagan out of office so things would go back to normal. And there was a time when Democrats were convinced that Bush was the problem and we needed to direct all our efforts at getting Bush out of office so things would go back to normal. And now Democrats are convinced that Trump is the problem and we needed to direct all our efforts at getting Trump out of office so things will go back to normal. The faces aren’t the problem here. The problem is the conservative movement which will just find another face after Trump is gone just like they did after Reagan and Bush were gone. And the conservative base, whether they’re magas or evangelicals, will flock to the new face. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166/160 "2024-11-14T16:42:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Donald will be dead or he will be so demented that he can’t speak a coherent sentence (of course, it’s debatable whether he can now). I subscribe to a 3rd view - the Republicans care more about themselves and will have no further need for him (at least after the midterms). They can each try to boost themselves as successors to his cause or whatever and leave him by the wayside. It’s not like they actually like or respect him (at least the ones with any brains). Why wouldn’t they also want their turn as top dog? They publicly say gracious things about his ‘jokes’ on changing the rules, can cite the Constitution about 2 terms and throw that in the face of people claiming they would toss it out, and try to keep the grift going with more now lining their pockets instead of his. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surprises-coming-for-voters-for-the-leopards-eating-faces-party/1010166.md?page=9)