# Surrendered Wife **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 2, 2000, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370 "2000-03-02T19:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/41 "2000-03-05T17:27:00Z")
I’ve been a card-carrying, bona fide female _all my life_ and know what pisses me off most about books like this? That it thoroughly insults both men and women, equating marriage with manipulation, sex for goodies and a total lack of emotional honesty. And then that tawdry chimera is touted as morally preferable and sanctified. Grrrr. As noted earlier, the real villians in this piece are the opportunists who exploit the decent folks plugging away at making marriage work. “Surrendered woman”, ha! If these losers are so into role playing why don’t they just cut out the piousness and go for it? At least “girl captured by pirates” or “hooker and john”, etc. have more honesty to them. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/42 "2000-03-05T19:05:00Z")
Ladies, what do you think of the conservative women in the media. Names such as Dr. Laura, Elaine Donnelly, Schlafly all of them advocate a woman’s traditional place is in the home yet they are in the public eye giving opinions on political topics. It is my contention conservative women in the traditional sense should not have let alone give political opinions especially not in public. ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/43 "2000-03-05T19:22:00Z")
Well, maybe not bullshit opinions anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/44 "2000-03-05T20:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by TVeblen: > **"Surrendered woman", ha! If these losers are so into role playing why don’t they just cut out the piousness and go for it? At least “girl captured by pirates” or “hooker and john”, etc. have more honesty to them.** Or “desperate student and professor.” Yeah… Oh, wait. Did I type that out loud? 🙂 - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Kiki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kiki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiki)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/45 "2000-03-05T22:23:00Z")
I think the author of this book is a few bricks short of a full load!! I can’t imagine a women wanting to live like this. Manipulating her husband to get what she wants and basically changing who she is to make him happy. That’s not what a marriage is about! I’m proud of the fact that I’m strong and independant and can take care of myself. I’m glad my boyfriend understands my independance and respects me for being that way. I’m not too proud to ask him for help with certain things if I need to but I certainly don’t rely on him for everything! * * * That John Denver’s full of shit man! ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/46 "2000-03-05T22:33:00Z")
That’s nothing but a reprint of the ideas in these really old books: Total Woman – Marabel Morgan; Mass Market Paperback The Electric Woman : Hope for Tired Mothers and Others – Marabel Morgan; Paperback The Electric Woman : Hope for Tired Mothers, Lovers, and Others – Marabel Morgan; Paperback ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/47 "2000-03-05T23:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Icerigger: > **Ladies, what do you think of the conservative women in the media. Names such as Dr. Laura, Elaine Donnelly, Schlafly all of them advocate a woman’s traditional place is in the home yet they are in the public eye giving opinions on political topics. It is my contention conservative women in the traditional sense should not have let alone give political opinions especially not in public.** This has been a point of debate for a very long time–at least since Catharine Beecher published A Treatise on Domestic Economy in 1841. This was one of the most influential works of the 19th century. In it, she stressed that a woman’s proper place/role was in the home. She thus would be able to influence and improve society both by her masterful child-rearing and also by providing her husband with a safe and harmonious domestic haven from the increasingly stressful and confusing outside world. Therefore, she would be helping her husband have a successful career by providing a place for him to escape the pressures of the developing industrial economy. She would also be constantly re-affirming his role as “head of household” at a time when more and more men were not able to go into business for themselves, and thus had to work as subordinate to others. So, no, the Surrendered Wife is not really a re-hash of Marabel Morgan–it is a re-hash of the many re-hashes of Catharine Beecher. As to the question of whether it is proper for a lady to be in the public eye…Beecher’s public explanation was that she felt her message was so crucial that she was willing to endure the resulting publicity. Now, of course that was total horse-hockey because she loved being a famous best-selling author. She was the 19th century equivalent of a celebrity–and she became annoyed when she was not treated as such. [On a side-note, she was extra-annoyed when her little sister Harriet published the book that started the Civil War (to paraphrase Mr. Lincoln) and became way more famous that Catharine ever was] Anyway, Dr. Laura, Phyllis Schlafly, and the rest are basically using the same justifications that Catharine Beecher did–and they are equally hypocritical. They feel that their message is just too important to keep to themselves. Well, maybe Catharine Beecher is less of a hypocrite–after all, I don’t think that there are any naked pictures of HER plastered across the internet. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/48 "2000-03-06T00:45:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Chef Troy: > **And here I thought this thread was going to be a story about a married pioneer woman whose husband allowed her to be kidnapped by Native Americans who help her discover and explore her sexuality…** It’s already been done, Chef Troy – “Hermana Sam” by Paul King. One of those hot little items the spinster librarians kept under the counter 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![jazzmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jazzmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jazzmine)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/49 "2000-03-06T01:20:00Z")
ooo! Auntie! I have to look up that book 😉 trisha ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2000, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/50 "2000-03-06T01:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > My favorite chapter is the one where the author shows how the woman can show her love by her creativity in the kitchen. Ah, yes. Women’s Liberation according to Archie Comics. * * * Heck is where you go when you don’t believe in Gosh. ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/51 "2001-03-09T15:09:24Z")
[hijack] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > What in the past has surprised me (but no longer does, I’m getting accustomed to it) is the number of women that are against feminism, and refuse the label feminist. They seem to think it’s wrong to fight for equal rights?!? I just don’t get it. But I suppose it’s easier to go with the flow, because the way of the reformer is never easy. This, **Arnold** , is probably a pet peeve of mine. I think it has less to do with women’s desire/ability to fight for equal rights–many people I know who refuse the label “feminist” believe in these things–and more to do with the popular conception of what a feminist is. She’s an ugly bra-burner who hates men, right? Therefore, women in their 20s and younger feel the need to distance themselves from that image. Much, much to the chagrin of feminists. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![aenea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@aenea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aenea)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/52 "2001-03-09T15:15:30Z")
Look at the dates on this thread! LOL, it’s been almost a year exactly, and this subject has once again been raised. The book still sucks, IMHO. And The Ryan called our situation exactly in his comment earlier (and a year ago) in this thread. Isn’t funny how these things work out… :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/53 "2001-03-09T15:23:27Z")
“Surrendered?” Don’t they mean “Stepford?” [Paula Prentiss voice]: “I thought we were friends. I was just going to make us some coffee” [pulling breadknife out of tummy] ---
**Author:** ![Palandine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/958977/32.png) [@Palandine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palandine)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/54 "2001-03-09T16:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > What in the past has surprised me (but no longer does, I’m getting accustomed to it) is the number of women that are against feminism, and refuse the label feminist. They seem to think it’s wrong to fight for equal rights?!? I just don’t get it. But I suppose it’s easier to go with the flow, because the way of the reformer is never easy. Here’s my take, FWIW (YMMV). I am a woman. I believe in the equality of men and women. In my mind, I consider myself a feminist. I am also pro-life. I oppose the Equal Rights Amendment and affirmative action. Furthermore, I oppose women’s studies programs and the shoddy intellectual skills they instill. I find them to have a fundamentally anti-intellectual bent that disturbs me. It’s as if they’re buying into all those 19th century stereotypes about how women are the emotional, feeling, nurturing ones, whereas men are the logical, cold, distant ones. I find none of this empowering to women. Nevertheless, because I hold the beliefs I described in the previous paragraphs, Gloria Steinem, Patricia Ireland, Phil Donahue, and Susan Faludi would not consider me a feminist. In the wider world, the word “feminist” now has a meaning I do not ally myself with. In short, my philosophy is a lot more in line with “Who Stole Feminisim?” by Christina Hoff Sommers than it is with “Backlash,” by Susan Faludi. I consider myself a feminist in my mind and in my heart, but I do not use the term to describe myself anymore without a lot of explanation of what I mean when I use it. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2001, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/55 "2001-03-09T23:43:26Z")
Christina Hoff Sommers is an ultra conservative who believes men and women are totally dissimilar beings who belong in their own seperate spheres. She is a member of the American Enterprise Institute and speaks for the Independent Women’s Forum as does Lynn Cheney. CHS is one of the most despicable women of our time she will never ever defend a woman who goes beyond her traditional role, expect herself. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/56 "2001-03-10T04:38:08Z")
Holy guacamole, Batman! Whatta resurrection! This thread contains (I think) my second post ever. Wow. It’s sad to see how much I’ve degenerated in the past year. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2001, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/57 "2001-03-10T17:28:24Z")
Exactly when and where has Christina Hoff Sommers stated that men and women are totally dissimilar beings who belong in their own separate spheres? ---
**Author:** ![Demo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demo/32/8472_2.png) [@Demo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2001, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370/58 "2001-03-12T16:51:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\*Holy guacamole, Batman! Whatta resurrection! This thread contains (I think) my second post ever. Wow. It’s sad to see how much I’ve degenerated in the past year. 😛 \*\* Whereas **I** have stayed consistently crappy and lacking any worthwile content. 😉 BTW, this thread contains flirtations between psycat and I that led up to us falling in love and her moving out here to CA from PA. I think we met in person, for the first time, just a week or two after this was originally posted. I know no one cares, but it was interesting to see our exchanges from (what seems like) so long ago. Kinda like digging those old love notes out of the closet, ya know? OK, stop making those gagging sounds, you bastards! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surrendered-wife/14370.md?page=2)