# Survival of the fittest... a Darwinian view of post counts. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 6, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838 "2001-11-06T19:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/1 "2001-11-06T19:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by TubaDiva_ > …longing for the day when a poster is judged solely by the content of their posts and not a damn thing else. As a newbie, my gut reaction is to “second this emotion”… but there is another perspective I’ve long considered… First, a disclaimer… while I voraciously read anything Stephen Jay Gould writes, I am not, nor claim to be any sort of expert in evolutionary biology. (This statement will quickly become intuitively obvious to the reader.) Before joining recently, I have lurked amongst the Teeming Millions for a couple of years. During that time, I’ve watched with interest (and no small amount of humor) the ongoing discussions regarding what I’ll call “post-count envy” (for after all, size matters… ~grin~). This has been usually evidenced via either defensive or flaming behaviors by the low-posters. I’ve also seen some behaviors by some of the high-posters that would tend to reinforce some of this paranoid thinking (who was it that said “if you don’t see conspiracy all around you, you’re not paying close enough attention”?) In the beginning of my lurking, I didn’t understand the rationale behind displaying the post counts. It seemed irrelevant. Yet over time I’ve come to a different conclusion… I now believe that post counts serve as a reasonable predictor of the weight to be put on the content of the post itself. Why?.. as a result of the inherent viability demonstrated through the survival of the fittest. Specifically, via two slightly different metaphors… 1. post counts as an indicator of population fitness 2. post counts as an indicator of individual fitness Post counts as an indicator of population fitness. Think of the SDMB as an environment where each poster represents a species (insects perhaps?.. after all, we are the Teeming Millions), and where the post count shows the population of that species. The first thing to note is that most species are either extinct, or have never gained a foothold. Some species are thriving (especially the **handy** ), and many others are more than moderately successful. And of course, there are always new populations attempting to gain a foothold, such as… ahem… myself. All in all, there have been approximately 18,000+ species here in this fertile environment, of which (assuming **kabbes** is correct with the [calculations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1790501#post1790501) and [conclusions](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=1793319#post1793319)), about 6,000 still exist (with some of those populations stagnant). Why do some species thrive and others die out? …or cling to survival by a thread? [sub](pun intended)[/sub] Clearly, to thrive, a species has to have brains, and to survive over long periods of time they need tenacity. In addition, the more adaptable the species, the better it can thrive in the various climates (GQ, IMHO, MPSIMS, The Pit, etc). This requires a robustness that not all species are blessed with. Some new species are predatory, and they quickly get exterminated sub[/sub]. Others die out just because the environment doesn’t suit them (or vice versa). Post counts as an indicator of individual fitness. In this sense, post counts are like big antlers or iridescent peacock tails (or expensive and flashy jewelry in the case of the human animal)… it is an external display of worthiness. (“don’t mess with me… see these things?.. I am powerful… you could hurt yourself if you try to take me on.”) In these individuals there resides wisdom, knowledge, and battle-hardiness. They have earned a certain amount of respect. The herd doesn’t follow the young buck challenging the alpha male… the herd follows their leader, who they’ve grown to trust over time. And just like in the population metaphor, adaptability is crucial to long term survival. Either way, my conclusion is that the post count is an important indicator to how much weight I put on their opinions (not the _only_ indicator of course, but an important one). Footnote: Now that I’ve re-read what I’ve written, I came very close to just deleting it because it seems too much like a mis-application of good science in an attempt to justify an opinion… but hey, screw that… it took me too long to write it to just throw it away. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/2 "2001-11-06T19:29:23Z")
Nice sig. [sub]I’ve got nothing to contribute.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/3 "2001-11-06T19:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by algernon \* > **Clearly, to thrive, a species has to have brains** Methinks you need to read more S.J. Gould, as well as more extensively on the board. There is no evident correlation between brains and (1) population size of organisms in nature; and (2) post counts of members on this board. At least not that I have observed. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/4 "2001-11-06T19:53:56Z")
So what you’re saying is, the only logical course of action is for me to mate with Coldfire and create THE PERFECT SDMB poster, right? Coldy? you in? jar ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/5 "2001-11-06T20:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by algernon \* > > Clearly, to thrive, a species has to have brains > > Methinks you need to read more S.J. Gould, as well as more extensively on the board. There is no evident correlation between brains and (1) population size of organisms in nature; and (2) post counts of members on this board. At least not that I have observed. LOL… I _told_ you my limitations would become intuitively obvious. And… ummmm… regarding point (2)… this I think would apply to you too, since you have over a thousand posts to your credit, which to me looks like you really have Big Antlers (so to speak). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/6 "2001-11-06T20:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Footnote: Now that I’ve re-read what I’ve written, I came very close to just deleting it because it seems too much like a mis-application of good science in an attempt to justify an opinion… but hey, screw that… it took me too long to write it to just throw it away. “Don’t try to be an A student baby if you do then you’re thinkin’ too much.” (Billy Joel) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/7 "2001-11-06T21:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by algernon \* > \*\*And… ummmm… regarding point (2)… this I think would apply to you too, since you have over a thousand posts to your credit, which to me looks like you really have Big Antlers (so to speak). \*\* Let’s leave the size of my antlers out of this, pal. 😉 **algy** , I just mean there’s no correlation either way (not an inverse correlation). F’rinstance, you, with your _mere_ 20+ posts, have already evinced more intelligence than several multi-thousand post members. Some prolific posters are very smart, others are the board equivalent of a vast swarm of mayflies. Some very knowledgeable people rarely post except to answer some highly technical questions in GQ. The only way to judge a poster is on quality of posts, not quantity. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/8 "2001-11-06T21:17:28Z")
[Large Booming voice] **John Carter of Mars**!!![/Large Booming voice] How’s it going? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/9 "2001-11-06T21:49:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*[Large Booming voice] **John Carter of Mars**!!![/Large Booming voice] > > How’s it going? \*\* Hey \*\*Tars \*\* ol’ buddy; fancy meeting you here, on the third planet. We’ll have to get together sometime and rescue a princess or two, just for old times sake. There’s a few green four-armed females around for you(I was married to one once, but I wouldn’t recommend \* her \*! ). Hang tough, man. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/10 "2001-11-06T22:53:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Colibri \* > \*\* Methinks you need to read more S.J. Gould, as well as more extensively on the board. There is no evident correlation between brains and (1) population size of organisms in nature; and (2) post counts of members on this board. At least not that I have observed. \*\* Heh. Although he never posits a correlation, Gould never misses an opportunity to point out that success-wise, earth is a planet of bacteria with a few hangers-on like fish and birds and talking monkeys. I’ll leave any conclusions that might be drawn to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/11 "2001-11-06T22:56:16Z")
If i get wind of any princesses that need rescuing, i’ll let you know first hand! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/12 "2001-11-06T22:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*If i get wind of any princesses that need rescuing, i’ll let you know first hand! \*\* I’m sure that **manhattan** will appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/13 "2001-11-07T13:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*So what you’re saying is, the only logical course of action is for me to mate with Coldfire and create THE PERFECT SDMB poster, right? > > Coldy? you in? > > jar \*\* _Mate_… you make it sound so… clinical, jar. I’m all turned off now. 🙂 Besides, wouldn’t we just produce a moderator that talks about sex all the time? Or **is** that your idea of a perfect poster? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/14 "2001-11-07T13:33:56Z")
I refer you all to my [Great Mod Breeding Program](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=75747) - incidentally a thread that took a lot of work and yet sank like a stone (sulk). Anyway… **algernon** - I think there is something in what you say. But notice that there is a big factor in post counts to consider. We may call it the clique effect, for want of a better term. It comes down to this - there are many things that I say now that I _could_ have said when I had few posts, but didn’t. This is a confidence issue. When one has few posts, one (a) doesn’t want to risk alienating oneself and (b) doesn’t really feel part of the banter. As such post rate is slower. If I could have a graph of my post rate, it would be nigh on exponential, I reckon. This means that high post posters tend to increase their count rapidly whilst low post posters stay low for a fairly long time (with a few notable exceptions). However note that the extra posts that I make now compared to then are NOT the well thought-out content-filled uberposts. No. They are the fluff. Probabilistically\* speaking, one of my posts now has a FAR greater chance of being fluff-filled rubbish now as compared to when I was a newbie! On the other hand, to stick up for the high post-counters I’d note that a high post count implies a certain resiliance. It means that you have a lot to say on many subjects (flexible, as you note above) and it isn’t so crass as to make you become a pariah. There is also a certain amount of natural suspicion for low post-count people, simply because we get so MANY trolls and idiots here. Any given newbie has a reasonably high probability of being yet another TOI, so posts are treated with care. This is neither right nor wrong - simply inevitable. But you can be respected with a low post count. He probably doesn’t realise it, but I always look out for **amrussell’s** posts. He has less than a 100, but each one tends to be intelligent and insightful, in my opinion. I’ll be looking out for yours too, now you’ve registered on the **kabbes** radar. So, in short, whilst what you say has good grounding, it can sometimes be the exact opposite. pan \*Is this a word? Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Vector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/dc4da7/32.png) [@Vector](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vector)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/15 "2001-11-07T13:35:05Z")
You can look at this a different way. I have been a member for a while but have considerably few posts. You may conclude that I reserve my posts for only the truly important; that I disregard the extreme majority of what is contained herein as otherwise not worth my attention to post. Number of posts may (or may not) be a valuable tool in determination of Darwinian strength. However a high number is not necessarily the telling factor of survivability; rather a low number of posts could tell you who the characteristically strong are. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/16 "2001-11-07T13:51:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > > I think there is something in what you say. But notice that there is a big factor in post counts to consider. We may call it the clique effect, for want of a better term. > > It comes down to this - there are many things that I say now that I _could_ have said when I had few posts, but didn’t. This is a confidence issue. When one has few posts, one (a) doesn’t want to risk alienating oneself and (b) doesn’t really feel part of the banter. As such post rate is slower. This expresses exactly how I feel as a newbie. Well said! (Though I’ve noticed in the past that the high-posters tend to _really_ dislike being accused of cliqueish behavior.) > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by kabbes_ > There is also a certain amount of natural suspicion for low post-count people, simply because we get so MANY trolls and idiots here. Any given newbie has a reasonably high probability of being yet another TOI, so posts are treated with care. This is neither right nor wrong - simply inevitable. LOL… TOI. A _great_ acronym. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by kabbes_ > But you can be respected with a low post count. He probably doesn’t realise it, but I always look out for **amrussell’s** posts. He has less than a 100, but each one tends to be intelligent and insightful, in my opinion. I’ll be looking out for yours too, now you’ve registered on the **kabbes** radar. I am both flattered and honored… (but oh my God… the _pressure!!!_… it’s so hard to keep it up under pressure. ~grin~) ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/17 "2001-11-07T13:58:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vector \* > Number of posts may (or may not) be a valuable tool in determination of Darwinian strength. However a high number is not necessarily the telling factor of survivability; rather a low number of posts could tell you who the characteristically strong are. I would concur. One of the problems with using the post count as an indicator of survivability is that a high post count might simply be a consequence of the passage of time… which is not entirely irrelevent as **kabbes** points out, because it does reflect a certain amount of resiliancy. To your point however, I agree that a low-poster who survives for a long period of time with regular (though infrequent) postings demonstrates a different, yet just as impressive expression of resiliancy. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/18 "2001-11-07T13:59:52Z")
If you can keep it up whilst all others are wilting around you… …why then you’ll be a _man_ my son. Incidentally, though I call it the “clique effect”, I’m not implying that there is an ACTUAL clique (There Is No Clique[sup]TM[/sup]). It’s just that certain natural effects easily create a clique-like atmosphere - something we constantly strive against. I don’t want to upset anyone. Ah fudge it. Yer all a bunch of clique-happy bastards. Leave me alone. LET ME DO SOME GODDAMNED WORK. Ooh excuse me, I’m having a turn. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes. I remember well being a newbie. You do feel left out. In fact, when going to the LonDope just a few months ago I was _amazed_ that World-Renowned dopers there had even _heard_ of me. It was then I realised the obvious truth that just as we notice others, others notice us. Even if they don’t say anything. This may or may not be a good thing. pan ---
**Author:** ![Kricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f14d63/32.png) [@Kricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kricket)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/19 "2001-11-07T14:08:32Z")
I think I like him. Can we keep him? Please, please please??? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838/20 "2001-11-07T14:19:30Z")
::looks behind him to see who is being referred to:: Ummmm… **Kricket** , do you mean _me_? I’ve been _waiting_ for you to notice me. It’s the fulfillment of all my hopes and dreams. Take me away dear one. PS- I love your sig… I noticed it when I was a mere lurker. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survival-of-the-fittest-a-darwinian-view-of-post-counts/91838.md?page=2)