# \[Surviving\] public figures from WWII **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680 "2011-05-21T13:55:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/61 "2011-05-23T12:37:56Z")
Luise Rainer won two Oscars back in the 1930s and is still alive, over 100 now. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/62 "2011-05-23T12:45:40Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I do and I’m fourteen and American. Thank you. I’m sure Vera Lynn’s much better known in the UK and probably also the Commonwealth than in the US, though. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/63 "2011-05-23T13:10:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Les Paul [died in 2009](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Paul). No Les, no more. Damn! We are all the Lesser for it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/64 "2011-05-23T13:30:30Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Considered standard _BY YOU_ - but probably not by anybody who knows what they’re talking about. Certainly Elizabeth II’s reign extends to far more than just the UK. > > And I don’t know that she was ever “Hear Apparent” in her lifetime. I think they’d be considered standard by most people. I actually did do a double-take for a moment when reading the OP, because it kinda looked like he meant the Queen Mother, but then reasoned that he’d be well aware she was dead so he must be the Queen, formerly Princess Elizabeth. Edit: she wasn’t the heir apparent because she was female, but she was the heir presumptive; if the Queen Mum had died (in, say, a bombing, since they chose to stay in London) and the King had remarried and that marriage had produced a son, said son would have taken precedence over his elder sisters. Hence presumptive rather than apparent. She was definitely always considered the next in line to the throne. > [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Luise Rainer won two Oscars back in the 1930s and is still alive, over 100 now. Good one. GHW Bush, again, doesn’t count because he wasn’t a public figure during WWII and if this thread included all people famous who were adults in WWII then it’d be a huge and meaningless list of old people. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/65 "2011-05-23T16:40:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I think they’d be considered standard by most people. I actually did do a double-take for a moment when reading the OP, because it kinda looked like he meant the Queen Mother, but then reasoned that he’d be well aware she was dead so he must be the Queen, formerly Princess Elizabeth. > > Edit: she wasn’t the heir apparent because she was female, but she was the heir presumptive; if the Queen Mum had died (in, say, a bombing, since they chose to stay in London) and the King had remarried and that marriage had produced a son, said son would have taken precedence over his elder sisters. Hence presumptive rather than apparent. She was definitely always considered the next in line to the throne. “Next in line to the throne” does not equal “heir apparent”. If we are to accept that words have definite meaning then Elizabeth of York (excuse me, PRINCESS Elizabeth of York of the House of Windsor) would, I believe, never have held that honor and would certainly not have _always_ held that honor. On her birth, next in line to the throne would have been her Uncle Edward. After him would have been her father Albert. After them would have been any boys they might have had. It would certainly have seemed extremely unlikely that she would have ever ascend. “Standard” does not equal what “you think what more people would consider to be correct”. If you’re looking for the standard way to refer to her Highness I suggest you go check the Royal Web Site. ---
**Author:** ![notquitekarpov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@notquitekarpov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notquitekarpov)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/66 "2011-05-23T16:57:03Z")
You guys forget that the crowns of England and Scotland are distinct although unified in one monarch. In Scotland I believe she is Queen Elizabeth, as they have never had a previous one (Englands’ Queen Elizabeth I being before the Union) ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/67 "2011-05-23T18:42:46Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > If you’re looking for the standard way to refer to her Highness I suggest you go check the Royal Web Site. Hey, snotty - while you’re at it, she’s not a highness, she’s a majesty. Owing to being queen, and all. Check the website. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/68 "2011-05-23T18:54:35Z")
> [@notquitekarpov](#): > > You guys forget that the crowns of England and Scotland are distinct although unified in one monarch. > > In Scotland I believe she is Queen Elizabeth, as they have never had a previous one (Englands’ Queen Elizabeth I being before the Union) First paragraph no, second yes. The Crowns were distinct though united 1603-1707, at which point England and Scotland merged as the United Kingdom of Great Britain (shorthand “Great Britain”). 93 years later in 1800, the UK of GB and the Kingdom of Ireland (which had had the English monarch as _ard ri_ for centuries, united as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. With the establishment of the Irish Free State, the title was changed in the 1920s to “…and _Northern_ Ireland.” However, Elizabeth is properly II and I when referencing Scotland, much as her many-times-distant-great-grandfather was James I and VI. (English numbering takes precedence and is used throughout the UK in general circumstances; the combo. is used when specifically referencing Scotland as a courtesy to the fact it had a distinct lineage preceding the Union of the Crowns.) But she is only a single Crown for the full UK, not distinct as monarch of England and of Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/69 "2011-05-23T22:06:25Z")
Angela Lansbury. First movie _Gaslight_, 1944, academy award nominee. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/70 "2011-05-24T18:44:57Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > “Next in line to the throne” does not equal “heir apparent”. If we are to accept that words have definite meaning then Elizabeth of York (excuse me, PRINCESS Elizabeth of York of the House of Windsor) would, I believe, never have held that honor and would certainly not have _always_ held that honor. > > On her birth, next in line to the throne would have been her Uncle Edward. After him would have been her father Albert. After them would have been any boys they might have had. It would certainly have seemed extremely unlikely that she would have ever ascend. > > “Standard” does not equal what “you think what more people would consider to be correct”. If you’re looking for the standard way to refer to her Highness I suggest you go check the Royal Web Site. I suggest you re-read my post, in which I said she was _never_ actually the heir apparent; she was the heir _presumptive_ once her father had ascended the throne, which was before the war you started the thread about. When I say ‘I think they’d be considered standard by most people,’ then yes, it does equal ‘what more people would consider to be correct.’ I don’t know why you’re getting all snotty with me anyway, when I said I understood what you meant. > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Angela Lansbury. First movie _Gaslight_, 1944, academy award nominee. That’s a good one. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/71 "2011-05-24T19:27:12Z")
Alois Brunner was a fairly influential SS official (while his rank was Captain, he was Adolf Eichmann’s aide and “trouble shooter”). He has never been officially declared dead but he has not been seen since 2001 and it is generally assumed he died. He would be 99 years old if alive. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/72 "2011-05-24T20:16:54Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > To be fair, she would’ve had the curtesy title Princess Elizabeth of York when her father was the Duke of York, but of course, as we all now know, by the time of the start of WWII, Colin Fir.., ahem, Prince Albert, Duke of York, was King George, so QEII would have been just referred to as Princess Elizabeth. Her Royal Highness THE Princess Elizabeth, to be more precise. In any case, as you point out, her father wouldn’t have been referred to as the Duke of York during World War II. The title disappeared when it merged with the crown, when George VI became King in 1936. > [@Polycarp](#): > > and of course Elizabeth, then Queen Consort of England, lived until 2002. As long as we’re being nitpicky: Queen Elizabeth was of course Queen Consort of the UK at the time. 😛 > [@samjones](#): > > On her birth, next in line to the throne would have been her Uncle Edward. After him would have been her father Albert. After them would have been any boys they might have had. It would certainly have seemed extremely unlikely that she would have ever ascend. And as long as we’re being nitpicky, it was first Edward, the Prince of Wales, _then any children he may have_, and then Albert, the Duke of York. Though perhaps that’s what you meant; the way it’s written it’s hard to say. > [@Polycarp](#): > > However, Elizabeth is properly II and I when referencing Scotland, much as her many-times-distant-great-grandfather was James I and VI. (English numbering takes precedence and is used throughout the UK in general circumstances; the combo. is used when specifically referencing Scotland as a courtesy to the fact it had a distinct lineage preceding the Union of the Crowns.) As I understand it, it’s commonly the _highest_ number that’s used when referring to the British monarchs. And you’re the only person I’ve seen refer to the current Queen as Elizabeth II & I, though I guess it’s not incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/73 "2011-05-24T20:27:19Z")
For those of you keeping score at home, this “Surviving public figures from WWII” thread now contains 73 posts, including: A) 50 posts about surviving public figures from WWII B) 22 posts quibbling about the correct nomenclature for Betty 2 of England, as she’s technically known. C) 1 post complaining about the large number of posts in category B. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/74 "2011-05-24T20:29:33Z")
Oh, and I almost forgot: > [@colonial](#): > > Even the reasonably well-informed might not have any idea who “Elizabeth of York” > is if the preceding “Her Royal Highness Princess” is omitted. Yeah, I hadn’t figured it out (hadn’t thought much about it either ;)) until this discussion started. > [@](#): > > The only case > I definitely recall hearing of this construction being used was during the trial of Louis XVII, > who was referred to as Louis _Capet_. Louis XVII is a tragic case, but I think you mean Louis XVI. > [@Shmendrik](#): > > B) 22 posts quibbling about the correct nomenclature for Betty 2 of England, as she’s technically known. The most proper nomenclature is _Brenda_. ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/75 "2011-05-24T20:57:34Z")
Margaret O’Brien has been working steadily in film and TV since 1941 (she made 6 movies in 1943 alone!). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/76 "2011-05-24T21:05:13Z")
Here are the sixteen living recipients of the Medal of Honor for service in World War II. Presumably, all would have been recognized for their actions during the war. Tech Sgt Van Barfoot (Army) PFC Mike Colalillo (Army) Tech Sgt Charles Coolidge (Army) Sgt Frank Currey (Army) Staff Sgt Walter Ehlers (Army) Sgt John Hawk (Army) 2nd Lt Daniel Inouye (Army) - this is the Senator PFC Arthur Jackson (Marines) Tech Corp Robert Maxwell (Army) Tech Sgt Vernon McGarity (Army) 1st Lt Charles Murray (Army) Master Sgt Nicholas Oresko (Army) Private Wilburn Ross (Army) Private George Sakato (Army) Private Paul Wiedorfer (Army) Corp Hershel Williams (Marines) ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/77 "2011-05-24T21:11:29Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > And as long as we’re being nitpicky, it was first Edward, the Prince of Wales, _then any children he may have_, I think that it would have depended. I don’t know the precise details - perhaps you do, but I would think that Elizabeth of York would have still been in-line if Edward and Wallis Simpson had any children and indeed I doubt that he could have ever made nice with the Royal Cabinet. Even if he had dumped that American and settled in with a nice Royal English Lass and had 8 proud boys. I don’t think that the notion of having a Nazi for King sat well with the British in '36 and I don’t think that they got any more used to it as time went on. I don’t necessarily see that any son of Edward’s was ever ascending. It’s all speculation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/78 "2011-05-25T10:06:34Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > I think that it would have depended. I don’t know the precise details - perhaps you do, but I would think that Elizabeth of York would have still been in-line if Edward and Wallis Simpson had any children and indeed I doubt that he could have ever made nice with the Royal Cabinet. Edward VIII’s bill of abdication specifically mentioned that his descendents, if any, couldn’t inherit the throne. But it had to specifically be put there to ensure that nobody could make any claims. Before his abdication, his children would have been in line for the throne, after him and before Prince Albert, Duke of York and his children. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/79 "2011-05-25T10:12:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Angela Lansbury. First movie _Gaslight_, 1944, academy award nominee. > [@SciFiSam](#): > > That’s a good one. I sure thought so–in post 37. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680/80 "2011-05-25T10:50:07Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > I was worried that if I were to refer to her as Queen then some pedantic jerk would feel entitled to educate me about 20th Century Royalty. Little did I know… I actually heckled a pub quizmaster the other week due to him calling her “The Queen of England”. God I regretted that seconds afterwards, especially seeing as I was at the pub quiz with a lady I was rather interested in from my Lindy Hop class. Me and my sodding big mouth. And alcohol. Damn alcohol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/surviving-public-figures-from-wwii/582680.md?page=5)