# Survivior 10/31/02 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720 "2002-10-31T16:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/41 "2002-11-04T05:48:22Z")
Of course Burnett is rigging the show, but he’s doing it after the fact. He had thousands of hours of film to work with, so it’s easy for him to edit the footage to make it look like one team is dominant or weak, to highlight or hide alliances, to play up controversies and crisises, or generally make the show dramatic. None of which means he was biasing the events that happened. Keep in mind that Burnett didn’t know what was going to happen on the island until it was over. He had no way of knowing who was going to be the most interesting characters and what would be the dramatic scenes until after the series was in the can. Then he went back and edited out 99% of his footage and created an interesting plotline out of the remaining 1%. > [@](#): > > Shii Ann may have been manipulative, and hard-nosed, and b-word-y (I’m sorry, I’m just not comfortable writing that word…), but hardly more than any number of other Survivor contestants. Frankly, I don’t think she ever got a fair shake…some of the things that were actually held against her were ridiculous (especially eating perfectly good organ meat…guys, there were people who ate rats and maggots on previous installments). But that’s just the nature of the game…like I mentioned earlier, it’s like a lottery; sometimes your number just doesn’t come up. Put me on record as a Shii Ann fan who was hoping she’d win. Of course, I’m the only person who liked Jerri Manthey so my opinion may be suspect. With Shii Ann gone, I guess I have to go with Brian as my new favorite to win. He’s entertaining and he’s working towards a win. But unlike Shii Ann, I don’t find myself rewinding Brian’s swimsuit scenes. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/42 "2002-11-04T14:57:37Z")
1. Shii Ann would like you to believe it was the things going into her mouth that got her voted out. Nope. It was the things coming out of her mouth that caused the problems. Plus she was not nearly as clever as she thought she was. And was caught backstabbing. And she “double dipped the chip” when eating. While no Robb or Ghandia, she was annoying, and weak at the challenges (how many did she sit out?). 2. The challenges are not rigged. However, the order in which they are played does seem to be reordered to keep competitive balance. At one time team geezer had lost a ton of challenges and were clearly outmatched on any physical challenges. Unsurprisingly, all the physical challeges disappeared, and we had Survivor puzzle-fest for the next 4 weeks straight. Any physical challenges were only for rewards, but even those were rare. This seem to have happen the last couple of years. One team is getting pounded early, then the challenges get much easier. I think the outcomes of the contests themselves are up to the Survivor’s though. Did they finally kill off the “eat the gross stuff” challenge? ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/43 "2002-11-04T15:11:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*2. The challenges are not rigged. However, the order in which they are played does seem to be reordered to keep competitive balance. At one time team geezer had lost a ton of challenges and were clearly outmatched on any physical challenges. Unsurprisingly, all the physical challeges disappeared, and we had Survivor puzzle-fest for the next 4 weeks straight. Any physical challenges were only for rewards, but even those were rare. This seem to have happen the last couple of years. One team is getting pounded early, then the challenges get much easier. I think the outcomes of the contests themselves are up to the Survivor’s though. > > Did they finally kill off the “eat the gross stuff” challenge? \*\* I think they (TPTB) probably have lots of challenges on hand, and decide which one to do at the last minute, depending on how the teams are doing, as evidenced by this year’s groups. Chewing Gum was getting killed in the physical challenges, so yes, they switched to challenges that were easier for them to win. Not exactly “rigging,” but darn near close, IMHO. I don’t know what happened to the “eat the gross stuff” challenge. That usually happened pretty early on, right? It was one of my favorites. I do remember reading that this year’s Survivor was going to be all-new, meaning challenges and rules. We’ve already seen that, in the way they pick teams, no switching tribes and no merge at 10 players. I do hope they keep the final trivia challenge, where they ask the final 3 (I think it’s 3) players questions about their fellow castmates (Who does this shirt belong to? Who’s last name is Snicklefritz? Who lives in Texas? Who has six kids? etc.) It really shows who got to know the others, and who didn’t give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/44 "2002-11-05T00:57:20Z")
Yeah, somebody said at the start of the season that all of the challenges would be brand new. Nothing we’d seen before. Which explains why they had to resort to **FISH SORTING!!!** I still can’t believe how stupid that was. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/45 "2002-11-05T02:04:31Z")
I liked fish sorting, and they still had to put gross stuff in their mouths. And for clarification, I did not mean to imply that the producers were rigging the challenges themselves, merely that there had been questions (I suspect incorrect, but you never know) that the _choice_ of challenges was made depending on who the producers wanted to see win that week. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/46 "2002-11-05T02:05:46Z")
Oh, yeah, fish sorting. That took a lot of skill. :rolleyes: And yet, Chewing Gum still killed the Soup Guys. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/47 "2002-11-05T02:13:04Z")
Oh, yeah, fish sorting. That took a lot of skill. :rolleyes: And yet, Chewing Gum still killed the Soup Guys. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/48 "2002-11-05T02:27:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*And for clarification, I did not mean to imply that the producers were rigging the challenges themselves, merely that there had been questions (I suspect incorrect, but you never know) that the _choice_ of challenges was made depending on who the producers wanted to see win that week. \*\* Oh, I didn’t mean to imply the challenges themselves were rigged, either. I meant what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/49 "2002-11-05T05:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know what happened to the “eat the gross stuff” challenge. That usually happened pretty early on, right? It was one of my favorites. I’m picturing Jeff Probst meeting them at this week’s challenge field with a bowl full of boiled chicken livers and telling Sook Jai, “Now who’s sorry?” Personally, I’m guessing the ugly food challenge may be history. In the last few series, we’ve seen that the players have been looking at it more a source of extra protein than a test of willpower. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/50 "2002-11-05T14:05:23Z")
The Shii Ann stupid statement train keeps rolling. And she wonders why she was dumped. > [@](#): > > Survivor: Thailand’s latest evictee, Shii Ann Huang, maintains that her status as a minority put her at a distinct disadvantage during her 21 days on Koh Tarutao. But surprisingly, the 28-year-old brassy exec recruiter says the fact that she was the reality show’s first Asian-American female was the least of her obstacles. > > “I’m a New Yorker… and that was the biggest cultural difference,” she tells TV Guide Online, noting that the majority of her Sook Jai tribemates hailed from the South. “I’ve been living in New York for seven years now, and we’re known to be outspoken and assertive and we don’t like to take things lying down.” > > Of course, Huang’s brazen tactics — specifically, her ill-fated attempt to form an alliance with rival tribe Chuay Gahn — ultimately cost her the $1 million booty. But as the Taiwanese native points out, the knowledge that she shattered a few stereotypes was reward enough. “I showed that Asian-American women weren’t these demure flowers or crazy dragon ladies,” she says. “We can be just as competitive in physically difficult situations as anyone else.” > > And to teammate Robb Zbacnik’s dismay, she also possessed the ability to devour every morsel of a cooked chicken — including the heart and neck! However, the wanabee Fear Factor contestant has her own theory as to why Robb always had a bone to pick with her. “I think there’s a very fine line between love and hate, and I think there might have been a little crush thing going on there,” she laughs of her rival. “It reminded me a lot of second grade when the boys would come and grab my hair.” (For Robb’s take on their contentious relationship, click here.) > > Speaking of Survivor-style romantic tension, Huang confesses that she harbored secret fantasies of her own. “I had a huge crush on Papa Jake,” she reveals. “He’s quite possibly the sexiest male player in Sook Jai. He’s got that Sean Connery thing going for him.” And what about a certain hunky Big Apple cop? “Ken was too tall for me,” she adds. “But he’s very good looking, too.” — Michael Ausiello ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/51 "2002-11-05T15:54:20Z")
I think Fear Factor has cornered the market on eating gross stuff, which is fine by me. If I never see another pig rectum again . . . I lamented the loss of Robb; now that the two tribes share the beach I believe we’ll miss a lot of shit-stirring and unintelligible insults from Tommy Lee Lite. But with Magilla stealing the bananas this week, maybe Robb’s not so far from our hearts after all. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/52 "2002-11-05T16:57:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > \*\*And they mentioned two student organizations she had been active in: the campus Republican group (which must be huge at Berkeley) and the student gay/lesbian alliance. > > Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s going to break Ferrous’ heart.\*\* Well, actually, back in (IIRC) the week 1 thread, I predicted she was the “token queer”. Hey, it’s not like her being gay means I actually have _less_ of a chance with her now.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/53 "2002-11-05T17:28:49Z")
The _token_ queer? ISTR that openly gay players have been featured quite prominently in this game. Rich won it all. Brandon played stupidly in the end, but was great comic relief. John’s rise and fall in Marquesas was an all-time highlight. I’d actually commend Burnet for his willingness to cast and prominently feature gay contestants, not snipe at him for tokenism. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/54 "2002-11-05T17:43:26Z")
Er…perhaps that came out differently than I intended? All I meant, **minty** , was that each series has had one gay person, and that person was not “out” in the beginning (except maybe Brandon, I don’t remember). So when the show started, some of us were speculating which one it would be this time. For some reason, Shii Ann struck me as a likely candidate. Rich was not openly gay at first, and only declared it when he felt comfortable with his tribe (and, IIRC, some had begun to speculate). John seemed quite peeved when someone “outed” him. I don’t have a problem with gay people at all. Heck, the whole cast could be gay and I’d still watch the show. (I still say Rich was the best player in the whole run, and he didn’t even have the benefit of seeing previous series. Only natural instinctive sneakiness.) So where was I going with this…Well, anyway, sorry if the term “token” offended you. I didn’t mean it in a derogatory way. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/55 "2002-11-05T17:48:05Z")
BiblioCat said: > [@](#): > > I think they (TPTB) probably have lots of challenges on hand, and decide which one to do at the last minute, depending on how the teams are doing I have yet to see any evidence that this is the case. Some of the challenges take quite a bit of time to set up, and I have seen smuggled-out daily production plans that lay out, ahead of time, what challenge will take place when. As I’ve already said, it is a pretty good bet that SOME team will end up stronger, even if TPTB don’t know ahead of time which team that will be. So it makes sense to stagger in some mental challenges to help make up for that. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/56 "2002-11-05T18:10:32Z")
Best player Rich? He came so close to getting voted out- and only one due to some really lucky break he had little to do with. Flip a coin? Best to me is someone who didn’t deserve to win, winning-- i.e. Tina or Velocipia, or someone who was clearly the best running the table and winning, i.e. Ethan. To me its #2, and Ethan as the best player ever. In any other year he probably would have won or come close. Rich, Tina or Velo would not. Heck I doubt if smug Rich would make it to the jury now. Just ask our pastor from this year’s show. . . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/57 "2002-11-05T18:24:25Z")
Yeah - it took me a while to figure out Brandon was gay. 😉 I think I finally realized it when he almost shot himself with that flaming arrow (the memory of which still makes me giggle!) ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/58 "2002-11-05T18:30:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > . . . I have seen smuggled-out daily production plans that lay out, ahead of time, what challenge will take place when. > > As I’ve already said, it is a pretty good bet that SOME team will end up stronger, even if TPTB don’t know ahead of time which team that will be. So it makes sense to stagger in some mental challenges to help make up for that. Yep, that’s pretty much what I’ve always thought. This season’s biggest challenge of brute strength was the race around the island with the dummies. It occurred, IIRC, when Chewing Gum was already down two members, and were clearly the physically weaker tribe. If there had been any desire to choose a challenge that would even things up, that was not the one to choose. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/59 "2002-11-05T18:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Best player Rich? He came so close to getting voted out- and only one due to some really lucky break he had little to do with. Flip a coin? > > Best to me is someone who didn’t deserve to win, winning-- i.e. Tina or Velocipia, or someone who was clearly the best running the table and winning, i.e. Ethan.\*\* There’s always an element of luck involved, no matter who wins. And to me, just being nice and “flying under the radar”, while often successful, is a passive strategy that relies too much on others. Rich took his fate into his own hands and played the alliance game masterfully. His great strength was getting others to do what he wanted, yet making them think it was all their idea in the first place. He won it all despite being annoying. > [@](#): > > \*\*To me its #2, and Ethan as the best player ever. In any other year he probably would have won or come close. Rich, Tina or Velo would not. Heck I doubt if smug Rich would make it to the jury now. \*\* Nah, if Rich & Co. were on Ethan’s team, they’d have had the good sense to boot him early. I liked Ethan, and there’s no doubt he deserved to win, but if his teammates had had any sense, they’d have canned his too-likeable and strong ass early. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2002, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720/60 "2002-11-05T21:04:25Z")
I definitely agree that Rich has been the best player to date. Also, he wrote the rulebook in many ways – the others had something to rely on. He had NOTHING. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivior-10-31-02/134720.md?page=4)