# Survivor 10/21: Hog Tied **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 20, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240 "2004-10-20T16:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/21 "2004-10-22T14:49:47Z")
> [@Green Bean](#): > > Though I wish he’d quit it with the slavery metaphors. “Slaving around camp,” “Up on the auction block…” unless…he’s doing it on purpose, to try and make the women feel too guilty to vote for him. Interesting. I think Rory just has a problem with metaphors. “Happy as a pig in a poke”… uh, no. A “pig in a poke” is an unknown quanity. What you were, was “happy as a pig in shit”. ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/22 "2004-10-22T15:13:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If it were said in a situation like this, on a message board, or a casual conversation in a bar, I would agree. Overreaction. But when a million dollars is on the line, and voting blocs can build from sheer momentum alone, I think the reaction was prudent. Only if she meant it the way that Ami thought. I don’t think she meant it the way it sounded. And I don’t think anyone else, either on there or the viewers would have taken it that way if Ami hadn’t made such a big deal of it. She said " I want to know where the \*something \*is, incase you’re not here." That doesn’t mean that she thought she would outlast Ami. It could just mean that since their tribe members are dropping like flies, who knows what’s going to happen next. EXAMPLE: Before this episode, who knew Lisa would be next? Now if Lisa was part of some big alliance, that Ami wasn’t a part of. Then, her words could be taken the way Ami thought. I liked Ami much better when she kept her mouth shut. That’s twice in a row that some one’s gotten voted off because they pissed _her_ off. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/23 "2004-10-22T16:23:35Z")
Ami pulled a Lex. She’s playing a dumb game now. I am jumping off her bandwagon. You can’t win if you are the one who leads the attack. Rory played well. I do think his speech had an effect. I think his rant (and his performance and camp and in the challenege) put him in place to reap the benefits of Ami’s paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/24 "2004-10-22T16:41:51Z")
I think we can all agree that Survivor needs some fairly major changes to mess with the expectations of contestants. As of now, they know that if they can get a 4 person group they will go far. A couple of teams will exist, a merge will happen. Pick people off. Sure the schedule may change a bit, but the formula is essentially the same. I wouldn’t mind seeing: 1. Start with a 16 person tribe and individual immunity. A group of 4 won’t cut it. No merge to play for. 2. Start with 2 tribes of 8, but they live together. Could limit potential pagonging or gender splits. Gives separate tribes a greater chance to intermingle and plot much further ahead in the game. 3. No or random immunities, combined with random tribal councils. Change the expected timing of things and the contestants are forced to scramble and act on faith more than having a set plan with hours to work on implementing it. 4. 2 tribes, but a mixed tribal/individual immunity as voted on by the other tribe. Basically, a tribe wins the right to avoid tribal council that night. Also, they get to give individual immunity to one person on the losing tribe. Pick the weakest one? The nicest one? The most irritating one? Essentially, they could try to force the other tribe into voting off someone other than the obvious option. ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/25 "2004-10-22T16:46:42Z")
**Mullinator** , I agree with you that there need to be _major_ changes made to how the game is played if they want to keep people watching. The two tribe method is _so_ stale. I like your ideas, and I’ll add one of my own: 1. Have all contestants live on the same beach, and for all challenges, draw straws to produce competing teams. Losing team goes to TC. The would completely change the way the game is played in terms of voting blocs and alliances, since you could never predict who was going with you to TC on any given day. Plus, it has the added benefit of allowing the whole group to get to know one another, so you don’t get any of that stupid “I have to stick with my original tribe mates” allegience after the merge. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/26 "2004-10-22T17:45:09Z")
I like the #5 Option, **Jadis**. And **Mullinator** , why not give us the “Rich Ratings” for Survivor like you do Apprentice? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/27 "2004-10-22T17:49:55Z")
> [@Jadis](#): > > **Mullinator** , I agree with you that there need to be _major_ changes made to how the game is played if they want to keep people watching. The two tribe method is _so_ stale. My sentiments exactly. And I kind of like your #5 too. ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/28 "2004-10-22T17:53:09Z")
OK I admit it. I’m weird. But I think it would be cool if Survivor “kidnapped” the contestants. Choose people based on their audition tapes, but instead of notifying them that they’ve been chosen, call them to their local CBS affiliate for a final interview. All they know ahead of time is that they need to contact their employer about getting the requisite time off in the near future. When they show up, tell them if they want to go on the show, they go today. Here’s your contract; hope you wore comfortable shoes. They can make whatever phone calls they need to tie up loose ends but can’t leave the station. End of the day, they’re blindfolded and flown out to some obscure location. No luxury items, no preparation, no real warning. ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/29 "2004-10-22T18:36:39Z")
I forgot to add, for my plan to work best, the ideal would be to cart the losing team off to TC _immediately_ after the challenge. This would reduce plotting time, and really put the contestants on the spot as to who they really think the weakest player is. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/30 "2004-10-22T18:59:43Z")
Suggestion #5 is a good one. At this point, I’ll take anything though. > [@](#): > > I like the #5 Option, Jadis. > And Mullinator, why not give us the “Rich Ratings” for Survivor like you do Apprentice? It’s simple. This season of Survivor is really starting to feel like the journey those kids took in “Stand By Me”. The trip just keeps going, there are a lot of rough stops along the way, and the end is going to manage to be both horrifying and a big let down all at the same time. There really is no way to get around how boring and stale this show currently is. My ratings would essentially be contestant 1 - eh. Contestant 2 - eh. Contestant 3 - sometimes it’s OK to turn off the air pump to your breasts, and eh. I’ll slog through this iteration but if I don’t hear some good things about next year, I’m done with this show. My only hope is that Burnett will be able to focus more on this now that The Restaurant debacle is off his plate. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/31 "2004-10-23T01:01:59Z")
You know, last week I said that Lisa made a smart move joining Yasur, even though it’s a weaker team, because there were so many other people who were likely to be voted off before her. Guess I was wrong. Better she should have chosen the team that was a lot less likely to go to tribal council at all. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/32 "2004-10-23T08:26:59Z")
One thing I’d like to see is no forced separation of the (two) tribes. Place them close enough that they can mingle if they want, even work as spies or defect. If MB is trying to do the mirror of society thing, tribes often encounter one another, trade, and do spontaneous battle. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/33 "2004-10-23T14:18:31Z")
DeVena, I like your idea but it’s unworkable. Aside from having these folks risk their jobs and their marriages by participating, the most glaring flaw IMO is that the contestants will be signing their contracts under duress. If a player later wants to sue the producers for whatever, a judge can rule that the contract is invalid because the contestants didn’t have sufficient time to obtain legal counsel, they didn’t know what they were signing, blah blah blah. That opens up a whole can of worms that I’m sure the producers would want to avoid. Personally, I think the game would be more interesting if they did several tribe swaps to break up the alliances. One day you’re on Yasur, the next day you’re not, and the third day you’re back but it’s a whole different group of people. Keep 'em guessing. I also they should get a better mix of ethnicities and ages in the tribes. The most interesting people are not necessarily the ones who look the best in a bikini. I would like to see one season where all the women are playing with the boobs that God gave them. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/34 "2004-10-23T17:00:39Z")
I do not approve of your big boob bigotry! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240/35 "2004-10-25T12:22:56Z")
> [@Jadis](#): > > I forgot to add, for my plan to work best, the ideal would be to cart the losing team off to TC _immediately_ after the challenge. This would reduce plotting time, and really put the contestants on the spot as to who they really think the weakest player is. I like this idea, and your#5 idea. IMO, one of the more boring parts is watching the scheming that goes on _after_ the IC and _before_ the TC. Sometimes you can tell by the editing who is going to be voted off after having watched every season. I’m wise to Mark Burnett’s tricks now and it is getting stale. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-10-21-hog-tied/270240.md?page=1)