# Survivor 11/21 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 21, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915 "2002-11-21T12:47:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dragongirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dragongirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragongirl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/21 "2002-11-22T10:35:38Z")
I thought the reward challenge was interesting, it put Clay in an awkward position to have to decide who to help. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/22 "2002-11-22T10:46:42Z")
I thought it was pretty funny how even though Clay chose to help Brian, Ted still didn’t want to give up and was just kinda hanging onto Clay’s other arm. As for the whole teams thing, during the first show when Jeff initially divided the members by males and females, I thought that would have made for some interesting TV. Boys versus girls? Who wouldn’t wanna see that? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/23 "2002-11-22T13:29:15Z")
It was an ok episode- better then last week. Nice to see Penny’s backstabbing rewarded with a boot. Brian seem to have this game sewn up as none of his teammates seems too bright. Bye bye Jake. Jan seems to be getting dumber right before our eyes. Helen’s last, best chance to make a move is gone. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/24 "2002-11-22T13:54:46Z")
Does anyone else play Yahoo Survivor Pick 'em? Someone has apparently rocketed to the top by somehow giving him/herself about a trillion points for choosing Penny. ---
**Author:** ![Realhoops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Realhoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Realhoops)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/25 "2002-11-22T17:01:28Z")
Does anyone here think it’s even remotely possible that Jake has Helen thinking enough that Helen and Jan might align themselves with Jake next week to force, at worst, a tie vote? I thought this week’s episode may have foreshadowed something like that. Helen is pretty cautious, but I think she’s also smart enough to realize that Jake does have a point that unless her and Jan join him they have no chance. Just wondering what the brilliant prognosticators around here think. ---
**Author:** ![dragongirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b38774/32.png) [@dragongirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragongirl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/26 "2002-11-22T17:16:42Z")
I don’t really think that’s the case, because I think that Helen is sercetly alligned with Brian. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/27 "2002-11-22T17:19:30Z")
Apparently, everyone but Jan is secretly aligned with Brian. I’m waiting for the other three to start talking amongst themselves, maybe feeling people out to “let them in” on each one’s alliance with Brian, and figure out that he’s been stringing all three along. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/28 "2002-11-22T17:24:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > **So how 'bout that Clay** You know, I don’t get why everyone is so down on Clay. I like him. I think he’s hilarious. And he’s playing a pretty good game, too. He could actually win this thing, if he can manage to dump Brian. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Realhoops \* > \*\*Does anyone here think it’s even remotely possible that Jake has Helen thinking enough that Helen and Jan might align themselves with Jake next week to force, at worst, a tie vote? I thought this week’s episode may have foreshadowed something like that. Helen is pretty cautious, but I think she’s also smart enough to realize that Jake does have a point that unless her and Jan join him they have no chance. > \*\* I think it’s remotely possible, but I doubt it will happen. Helen is smart, but too cautious, so I don’t see her taking the chance. Jan is dumb and sentimental. I don’t believe she’ll turn on her “family”. And finally, everyone knows Jake is desperately trying to pull a game out of his ass, and they don’t trust him. I like Jake too, and you have to give the old guy credit. He gave it his best shot, and didn’t do too badly. He’s almost certainly gone next week though, or maybe the week after. And Brian…yeah, he is definitely playing a good game, and would have to be the favorite to win. But I just don’t like the guy. He creeps me out, and he has a monstrous ego. And damn, wasn’t he a wuss about that elephant? “No safety procedures.” Heh. So anyway, I’m now pulling for Clay to win. Go Clay! ---
**Author:** ![NotWithoutRage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NotWithoutRage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotWithoutRage)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/29 "2002-11-22T18:27:13Z")
Ew, Clay. What was the deal with all those “ass” comments last night? First directed towards Brian, and then the elephant. Next week: clip show. December 5: adios Jake. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/30 "2002-11-22T18:32:39Z")
I have no faith in Helen or Jan that they will not sit on their hands until they are culled from the herd. Jan with a stupid look on her face and Helen still trying to make up her mind to do something. If Clay is smart, he will try and engineer a final two against Ted who is not that popular. Brian probably has the same plan. How in the heck is Ted still fat? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/31 "2002-11-22T19:21:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NotWithoutRage \* > \*\*Ew, Clay. What was the deal with all those “ass” comments last night? First directed towards Brian, and then the elephant. > \*\* I noticed that too. I also find it fascinating that in spite of his Southern good ol’ boy image, he’s so obsessed with these quasi-gay moments–first rolling all over the tarp in Ted’s arms on one of the first episodes, then last night’s “Hey, I got a date. And he’s got a sexy ass—I know, 'cause I’ve seen it!”. Was last night the first vote against Jan, or has she had others? She certainly is flying under the radar now that people are more concerned about potential challengers than about voting off annoying screechy people. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/32 "2002-11-22T20:12:00Z")
You know what, since overwhelming consensus always bores me to death, I’m ponying up an alternative script for the next actual episode (has any of these outtake eps ever been good?). There’s no reason for any of the former Oranges to knock off Jake at this point. He’s a lame duck, and there are still four eliminations to go. The only way he’s making it to the showdown is if he pulls a Kelly W and absolutely catches on fire in the immunity challenges, but that looks extremely unlikely. If you’re Clay or Ted, or Brian, for that matter, now’s the time to start thinking about winning. That requires taking out anyone who’s going to be a threat to you in the stretch drive, not the obvious easy target. The obvious target is Clay, since he’s been underrated thus far but has already won two challenges. This should be a red flag to everyone that he’s a big threat. Brian is too, but a less obvious one at this point. My guess (again, it’s only a _guess_) is that either Clay or Ted gets the heave-ho, then maybe Jan (erratic + under the radar + could turn into a sympathetic figure = constant danger), and finally Jake. Of course, if Jake somehow wins immunity, I fully expect the opposition to wake up to the threat and boot him the first chance they get. What the hey, anything to make the stretch drive _exciting_, like it is for most other sports… ---
**Author:** ![cichlidiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f9b8f/32.png) [@cichlidiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cichlidiot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/33 "2002-11-22T20:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*It was an ok episode- better then last week. Nice to see Penny’s backstabbing rewarded with a boot. > > Helen’s last, best chance to make a move is gone. \*\* I felt the same way, I also liked seeing the look exchanged between Jake and the two jurors. I think he is a sitting duck, but I was glad to see he didn’t vote for Penny even at the end. As far as Helen, I think she has been looking for an “in” since before the merge. With the tightness of the men, she still went with them when it came down to it, voting out Giardia. I am hoping that she gets together with Ted. By not extinguishing his torch last night I’m hoping Ted realizes it’s a possible strategy that could work for him. Something to counterbalance the Brian and Clay thing. I think Jan would side with T&H over B&C. I think Brian is the smartest player though, so I’m not counting on this happening. I wish Jake would let the cat out of the bag about Clay. Clay basically cemented the boots Jake is now wearing with the “vote out Ted” thing. I think Jake would be on his way out anyhow, but not with the amount of vindictiveness existing now. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/34 "2002-11-22T20:52:20Z")
When was the last time 3 different players got votes in a TC? I think it says something (I’m not sure what…) ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/35 "2002-11-22T20:58:31Z")
My predicted order: Jake Helen Clay (\*) Granny Ted and Brian. Brian wins by 2 votes minimum. - Depending on immunity. Brian has to be a bit worried about facing a jury against Clay. Mr. Alone Time is a much better match up. After Tina, he sure isn’t taking Granny. Brian would really have to screw something up to lose as this point. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/36 "2002-11-22T21:22:44Z")
Nah, Clay is a better person to have in F2 than Ted. Clay annoys all the women, and I’d bet the Soup Guys he’s suckered will be none-too-happy with him either. Hard to say whether Brian will want to go forward with Clay or Ted, though, since that’s also a question of who he’s more comfortable with. My own guess is that Clay will be one of the first two Chewys booted. Nobody trusts a weasel, so he won’t make it too much further. Barring immunity, here’s my boot order: Jake Helen Clay Jan Ted Brian wins 5-2. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/37 "2002-11-22T21:31:48Z")
Assuming there is a Ted/Clay/Brian alliance, how do they keep Jake from allying with Helen and Jan and making them turn? Easy. They send Ted to talk to Jake. Ted tells Jake: “That little love fest between Clay and Brian at the last immunity challenge has me feeling insecure. Jan has Helen, and Clay has Brian, but I have no firm ally. I’d like to have you as my ally going into the final four. I’ve talked Clay and Brian into voting off Helen tonight. We’re going to vote off Helen first, and then Jan, which will leave you and me against Clay and Brian.” Jake may buy into this, seeing it as a clear path to the final four, even if he’s not sure how much he can count on Ted. This should be enough to keep him from approaching Helen. Meanwhile, Clay and Brian are telling Helen and Jan (truthfully) “OK, Jake’s gone tonight.” Note: I think Helen believes she has a firm alliance with Brian. She wants to go to the final two with him and then argue that (as the video from home showed), Brian has plenty of money and doesn’t need the prize. (Didn’t both Helen and Brian vote for Jan last night?) Brian is suckering Helen. Helen, not sniffing the coming betrayal, goes along with the team plan and votes for Jake. Jake votes for Helen, and is surprised that his is the only vote that goes that way. Next, B/T/C take out Helen (because she’s an immunity threat, and because no one wants to face her in a final vote), and it’s Brian, Ted, Clay and Jan in the final four. ---
**Author:** ![Realhoops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Realhoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Realhoops)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/38 "2002-11-22T21:36:39Z")
Jake was the only one who voted for Helen last night. Penny voted for Jake and everyone else voted for Penny. I think there’s a good chance that Ted really _does_ have doubts about Brian right now and that Helen really _does_ realize that she can’t count on Brian to get her to the final two. I don’t know what’s going to happen for sure, but somehow I think Jake will make it past the next vote. Given the history of the show, when’s the last time the person who looked most likely to win at this point actually did? With the exception of Ethan, I don’t think any of the other winners looked like such a sure lock as the editing has made Brian look to this point. I think there’s something happening right now that we just aren’t being made privy to. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/39 "2002-11-22T21:50:28Z")
BTW, Jan in the final four. Who’da thunk it when the show started? ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915/40 "2002-11-22T22:06:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*How in the heck is Ted still fat? > > 😕 \*\* Well, as of the last episode, they’ve only been there for 30 days. And, it’s not like he starves. Besides, he has at least slimmed down. I could’ve swore I saw somewhat of a mangled six pack on him on the last episode. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-11-21/137915.md?page=3)