# Survivor 12-11; Winding down **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354 "2003-12-11T14:27:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/21 "2003-12-12T02:04:24Z")
Jon better win the whole thing. Because I can’t see a reason why anybody would want to be in the same room as him after this unless he paid them. I’ve seen Jon look scared before. Yeah, we’re gonna have to suffer with Jon all the way through. They’d be stupid to vote him off because there’s no way he’d win with the jury. ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/22 "2003-12-12T02:07:55Z")
OMG. Did I really just witness Burton say during his final remarks that he hopes that Lill can live with herself for breaking their alliance FIVE MINUTES AFTER HE JUST **VOTED** AGAINST HER??? What a fucking jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/23 "2003-12-12T02:08:52Z")
I am completey amazed and dumbfounded after hearing Rupert’s exit speech. How dare he say that he hopes Lil can live with herself after breaking their alliance??? Isn’t that exactly what he did himself? That’s got to be one of the most hypocritical things said in the history of the show. ---
**Author:** ![mcms\_cricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@mcms\_cricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcms_cricket)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/24 "2003-12-12T02:09:59Z")
Do y’all really think that it’s a **good** strategic move for anyone to take Jon to the finals? Yeah, everyone thinks he’s an ass, but in seasons past (well, not every season), the ass usually wins because even though he/she’s an ass, everyone feels that his/her gameplay was worth it - “I think you’re an ass and a total jerk, but you still deserve to win because you really played the game well so I’m voting for you.” I’d HATE for Jon to win, I really would. At this point, I’d be OK with Sandra or Darrah and I’d be pissed if either Lil or Jon won. Lil was really driving me crazy tonight with her moaning and groaning. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/25 "2003-12-12T02:10:07Z")
Grrr Burton, not Rupert. I’ve got all their names muddled, I’m afraid. I’m such a putz. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/26 "2003-12-12T02:10:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > I’ve seen Jon look scared before. Yeah, we’re gonna have to suffer with Jon all the way through. They’d be stupid to vote him off because there’s no way he’d win with the jury. I dunno. Everyone was saying exactly the same thing about Rob last game, and I think he would have creamed whoever he took with him to the final two had he won that last immunity challenge. If I were in this bunch, I’d be looking to take Lil with me to the final two. ---
**Author:** ![mcms\_cricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@mcms\_cricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcms_cricket)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/27 "2003-12-12T02:12:05Z")
Yeah, and what the rest of you said about Burton. What a freakin’ hypocrite. I really, really really, hope he gets called on that comment in some interview. I really want to hear how he explains why HIS breaking the alliance was OK, but Lil’s breaking the alliance was a betrayal. Ugh. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/28 "2003-12-12T02:26:19Z")
Burton had played the game well once he got back in but taking Jon on the reward was dumb, dumb, dumb. He and Jon were tight: he knew Jon had his back & as much as anyone could be trusted - he could trust Jon. If he had taken Darrah, who last week was willing to be his neophyte or Lil who would have followed him blindly into fire he and Jon could have skated to the final two, he only needed one more vote. in Jon’s defense: Sandra had me fooled too – just because she believed Jon after he turned on Rupe & let him talk her into turning on her allaince with T and Darrah and then was willing to go with him again … I wasn’t sure she would ever wake up. But she did so kudos … I agree Lil may be most unpopular: Burton, Rupe, Christa and eventually Jon on the jury may all have reasons to hate her guts worse than anyone else - maybe even Jon. Plus she has that Outcast stuff working against her. I’d rather take Jon – but not by much I too was outraged by Burton’s exit speech. Worse than Rupe’s and that is saying sumpin’. Loved Rupe Christa and ryan laughing and high fiving – never seen that before ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/29 "2003-12-12T02:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > ArchiveGuy, I hope you don’t pit me for this or a moderator doesn’t ban me for this, but that. is. a. crock. And I’m not really directing this solely to you, but to everyone who says, "it’s not [whatever, blah, blah, blah] it’s, Survivor - Outlasted! [blah, blah, blah] > > If this were really a last-person-standing survivor instead of milque-toast lilly liver pussy ass I could beat you if we were at the office & I could spread nasty gossip about you or if we were in my parent’s basement & I could woop your ass at trivial pursuit and/or my latest Xbox game Survivor then sure, so-and-so would win. Hey, I didn’t say it was a “last-person-standing survivor” incoherent blah-de-blah-blah. I just said that discounting a contestant because she hasn’t been playing both sides against the middle and scheming and conniving every step of the way is stupid. Hey, she’s there, and she’s earned her place there (certainly more than several others), so just cause she hasn’t been immersed 110% in the “game” component doesn’t make her any less worthy. So don’t put words in my mouth, and go “crock” somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/30 "2003-12-12T02:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by simply\_cats \* > \*\*1) I’d love for the “granny” lie to come out 🙂 > 2) I’d love for Darrah to win all the rest of the immunities! > > 1. I’d love for Burton to go tonight. The moron/pretty boy mix is wearing on my nerves. > > 2. Ultimately, I’d love Darrah and Sandra to be the final two, with Jon three, and Lil (urk) fourth. \*\* Nice predictions for the first post - 2 & 3 of course happened and it looks like 4 is a possibility too. I _knew_ the second Burton picked John to go on the trip with him he was screwed - it was obvious the girls had no choice but to ally against them. He should have taken Lill (since she was the one to most likely be swayed) and let John sit back at camp and work on Sandra and prevent her and Darrah from strategizing. Regardless, I’m glad that the outcast was voted off again, and hope Lill goes next. John may still have a shot through either the IC or just being a total jerk - Darah and Sandra would probably rather go against him than Lill or each other in the final 2. Of course it’s a risk because the Jury may respect John even though he’s evil as **mcms\_cricket** said. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/31 "2003-12-12T02:29:20Z")
What I don’t get is the pure hatred those two had for the other players. Yes, Lil was riding on tail-coats, but the others? Even Darrah? Darrah’s been kicking ass. How is it possible that all of them have been riding tailcoats, except for Burton and Jon? The constant referral to them as “girls”–even Lil–was also sickening. I am so glad they gave those guys a taste of their medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/32 "2003-12-12T02:35:01Z")
I’m rooting for Jon all the way. He has certainly outwitted everyone so far. I hope he wins, he tells everyone about the lie, and then he wipes his ass with a $100 bill. I’m less than glad that Burton left, he was a great player. Lill deserves to be gone for being so damn whiny and riding coattails. Sandra is interesting only because she has managed to be even more grating than Jon and last this long. Darrah has played the game well: fly under the radar until you can’t any more and then win every single immunity they offer. But still, Jonny Fairplay all the way, baby. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/33 "2003-12-12T03:00:43Z")
Who knew back when she was about as active as her clients that Darrah would turn out to be an immunity threat? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/34 "2003-12-12T03:04:15Z")
The only way Jon can survive now is if he can convince Lil that she has no hope of lasting longer than third with the girls, which is true. If he can convince her that she is better off with him than with them, he might be able to get a tie in the next TC, and survive the tie-breaker test. Lil has nothing to lose by trusting him, she is unquestionably the next to go after him. Jon doesn’t even need to lie to her, she really is his only chance. Plus, Lil should realize that if it comes down to her and Jon, she wins, because everybody hates Jon now. If Jon plays his cards right, he finishes second, and Lil wins. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/35 "2003-12-12T03:07:39Z")
Rupert’s little petulant child act is wearing thin. He gives everyone the evil eye, then high fives when people are voted out. He can probably really relate to the troubled teens he deals with. Of those left, I guess I’m rooting for Darrah. She’s the only one I can stand out of the 4. Plus, she looked pretty yummy in her yellow bikini tonight (which is my ultimate tiebreaker 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/36 "2003-12-12T03:09:09Z")
But if Lil gets to the F3, she can COMPETE to be the one to pick who goes to final jury with her. Lil actually started to think for herself this episode (about time…), and she was the driving force behind the Women’s Alliance. Maybe she’ll realize that she can try to get to F2 herself rather than hoping someone will take her. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/37 "2003-12-12T03:10:36Z")
She was the driving force behind _starting_ the Women’s Alliance. She did kind of semi-flake right after they decided to do that, but climbed back onboard and followed through. ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/38 "2003-12-12T03:23:48Z")
Here’s the thing: Jon is still in one of those psoitions where no one would _want_ to vote him out, since they should be fairly certain to win against him, based on his deception. _However_, if it were me, I’d be thinking Lil and then play the coattails and Outcast card, because you know that’d rankle just enough to get the votes. Darrah looks good, and I also think she could win ( 😉 )though Sandra has just enough scheming in her that I think she might go back to Jon, knowing that she’s got him in _her_ pocket now. He’s scrared, got to be, and she should be able to manipultae his ass now. All it takes is for them to get the other two voting criss-crossed and they coordinate, bam- done. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/39 "2003-12-12T03:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by thinksnow \* > \*\*Here’s the thing: Jon is still in one of those psoitions where no one would _want_ to vote him out, since they should be fairly certain to win against him, based on his deception. > \*\* Are you referring to the “grandma” lie? Because if so, that doesn’t matter - they didn’t know about it until long after the final votes were cast. They reveal the votes live, but the votes themselves were cast before the premiere was even aired. Unless, of course, you mean his ongoing deception and consistent blindsiding of fellow survivors. ---
**Author:** ![Synthesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@Synthesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Synthesis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354/40 "2003-12-12T03:48:35Z")
Yeah. I realized just extreme our culture had influenced me when I look at Darrah and think: wow…she is starting to look really hot. I mean…this is a slender/average woman who has been starving for a month and I’m thinking that it looks good! Burton must have been out of his mind to take John… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-11-winding-down/218354.md?page=3)