# Survivor 12/12/04 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 12, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509 "2004-12-12T23:23:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/81 "2004-12-13T23:15:27Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I’m not defending her. I’m comparing her to Ted Turner, who has made insulting comments about Catholics, the Pope, Pollacks, Jews and immigrants. I’m putting forth the argument that there are two standards of behavior in society: one for men and one for women. … Ted Turner is a contemporary of Marge Schott. George Steinbrenner is a contemporary of Marge Schott. And for the record, I hate Ted Turner and George Steinbrenner just as much, if not MORE, than I hated Marge Schott. Please understand me: I did not hate Marge Schott because her behavior as a woman was different than my behavior as a woman is – _I hated Marge Schott because her behavior as a so-called human being was different than mine is._ You said earlier: > [@PunditLisa](#): > > What pisses me off is that once again, the jury members (except Ami and Scout) are willing to give a free pass to a lying, cheating, back-stabbing MAN but are shocked and dismayed when the same qualities are exhibited in a strong, independent WOMAN. Sexism is alive and well in 2004. Please note that these particular jury members are not the same ones who awarded million-dollar checks to Tina Wesson or to Vecepia Towery or to Sandra Diaz-Twine – all for doing the same thing Chris did this time around. In fact, a woman has won this game five times out of nine – and you can’t convince me that a ONE of them has won without lying. So, consider the source. I don’t think this jury gave Chris a free pass for anything. The “lying” is just an excuse. They plain don’t like Twila and didn’t want her to have the money. It’s not because she’s a “strong, independent WOMAN” – it’s because she’s an abrasive, unpleasant person. She didn’t play well with others except grudgingly. She really didn’t appear to have any fun playing the game. I respect Twila’s determination, but if I had to spend any length of time with her, I have to admit that I might want to hold her under water too. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/82 "2004-12-13T23:31:48Z")
> [@Savonarola](#): > > In such a situation, were I Julie, I would go to Twila, whom I had spent days with after the team switch trying to stay alive, and tell her that Chris was playing both sides. I would tell Twila that Chris had promised me that he would vote for her (Twila), but that I was unsure of his honesty. We three (Julie, Twila and Scout), therefore, should stick with our original plan and vote Chris out, Eliza being immune. > > While this would be a lie, it would be the only way for me (Julie), to stay alive and not be eliminated. > > There are other scenarios that might have played out, but this is the one I feel would have been most likely considering the strength of the Scout-Twila alliance. I don’t know whether they would have gone along such a plan proposed by Julie, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did. Nope. You forget that Julie already played that card with Twila when they were the 2 lone women in the men’s camp – trying to convince her that the men were “playing both sides,” promising Julie the same thing they were promising Twila. Twila bought it, hook, line and sinker, then found out later that it was a blatant lie. I don’t believe Twila would ever have fallen for that story again from Julie. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/83 "2004-12-14T02:14:40Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Nope. You forget that Julie already played that card with Twila when they were the 2 lone women in the men’s camp – trying to convince her that the men were “playing both sides,” promising Julie the same thing they were promising Twila. Twila bought it, hook, line and sinker, then found out later that it was a blatant lie. I don’t believe Twila would ever have fallen for that story again from Julie. Mebbe, mebbe not. But the point is that it wasn’t unreasonable for Chris to be concerned about the possibility of Julie and Eliza appoaching Scout and Twila about voting Chris out. He didn’t blindside Julie for no reason. He had a fairly substantial reason, even if you don’t think Julie could’ve pulled off anything to save herself. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/84 "2004-12-14T14:27:50Z")
Hey, I just had a thought last night that some of you probably figured out weeks ago: Why they didn’t have a gross food challenge! Because they had been taught by an islander how to forage for food, and they would have called bullshit on eating grubs and nasty stuff, since Probst always bills it as native fare. ---
**Author:** ![Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/85 "2004-12-14T16:17:38Z")
> [@Savonarola](#): > > As a result, for his honesty, Chris might have been rewarded with a booting from the tribe. By lying to Julie, he was able to prevent her from approaching Twila and Scout with an alternative voting strategy that might have cost him the game. To me that’s good gamesmanship, not cheating. > > I’m interested in your thoughts. I agree with you about the Julie situation, but I can’t figure out why he lied to Eliza - he had immunity! If he had said, “Sorry Eliza, I do like you but I’m sticking to my original alliance with Scout and Twila it would make more sense for me to go into the final immunity challenge with two older women rather than a physical threat like you” what could she do? It just seemed mean spirited to get her hopes up like that. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/86 "2004-12-14T19:29:56Z")
> [@Savonarola](#): > > As a result, for his honesty, Chris might have been rewarded with a booting from the tribe. By lying to Julie, he was able to prevent her from approaching Twila and Scout with an alternative voting strategy that might have cost him the game. To me that’s good gamesmanship, not cheating. > > I’m interested in your thoughts. I totally agree. I think Chris played one of the best games that’s ever been played, and he’s one of the few winners in recent memory that I personally feel actually did “outplay and outwit”, as opposed to being basically lucky. Granted, the one major turn of events that kept Chris in the game was instigated by Twila, totally out of his control. But even then, he took immediate advantage of it and pro-actively talked to Eliza to encourage her to go with Twila’s plan. Bottom line is, Chris played an excellent game. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/87 "2004-12-14T20:34:31Z")
Chris’s highlight moment for me was when Twila walked up on him and Eliza(Julie?) talking. He was in the hammock and was busted. His “aw shucks, me?” act was perfect! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/88 "2004-12-19T04:50:45Z")
[Rumor confirmed.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=796&e=7&u=/eo/15552) > [@](#): > > Maine native Julie Berry came in fifth on Survivor: Vanuatu, but she still wound up with a prize of her own–the show’s host, Jeff Probst. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/89 "2004-12-19T04:53:59Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > [Rumor confirmed.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=796&e=7&u=/eo/15552) Well, well, well, well, well… If you listen really hard, you can hear the female fans screaming around the country sobbing. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/90 "2004-12-19T04:55:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, well, well, well, well… > > If you listen really hard, you can hear the female fans screaming around the country sobbing. 😃 Um… “…female fans around the country sobbing.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Critical\_Mass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Critical\_Mass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical_Mass)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/91 "2004-12-19T09:29:40Z")
[This](http://www.tvtome.com/AmazingRace/) might be interesting. > [@](#): > > December 11, 2004 > > Survivor: All-Stars lovebirds Boston Rob Mariano and Amber Brkich are said to be among the 11 teams currently participating in The Amazing Race 7. > > The rumor, which is all over the Internet, surfaced in Toronto last week when Mariano was slumming at a local Woman’s convention. (He and Brkich have shamelessly milked their 15 minutes of fame by working casinos, golf tourneys, kids parties, etc.) > > CBS is always very tight-lipped about upcoming reality show participants. The Amazing Race 7, currently in production, won’t air until sometime in Spring 2005. And I hear they’re pencilled in for Apprentice 4. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509/92 "2004-12-19T17:27:48Z")
I’m still hoping for Rick Rockwell and Evan Marriott! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-12-04/279509.md?page=4)