# Survivor 12/18 The Finale **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777 "2002-12-19T12:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/61 "2002-12-20T19:52:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dinsdale \* > \*\*Please explain to me what benefit she derived from voting for Helen? With the stones, at least she and Helen had a chance. And I cannot imagine anyone truly believes she had a chance to beat Brian in the final challenge, which always involves stamina. Yes, she always tried hard. But trying isn’t always enough. > > She screwed up twice in the final stages, when it really could have made a difference.\*\* The benefit was she made it to the Final 3, kept her “integrity”, and was one leg cramp away from taking home the $1M. You are right that she could have made a difference, but only in Helen’s favor, not her own. I don’t see how any other strategy would have put Jan in a better position to win. Pash ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/62 "2002-12-20T20:12:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*4-3, Brian over Clay. And the post-game show was actually pretty good. \*\* I agree. It’s the first good one I’ve seen. Jeff asked all the questions I wanted to ask, and he didn’t let them weasel, either. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/63 "2002-12-20T20:54:50Z")
Crud. I had given up on the reunions after last year’s was so bad. Anyone know of a good summary online of the reunion show? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/64 "2002-12-20T21:39:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pashnish Ewing \* > \*\*I think everybody needs to get off of Jan. She played the game perfectly. \*\* I’m willing to lay off Jan, because IMHO she did nothing wrong, and I kinda liked her, but she wasn’t _purposely_ playing under the radar, either. I don’t think she played the game perfectly, either. She basically rode the coattails to 3rd place. She was a hard worker around the camp, as compared to Lazy-Ass Clay, but she was generally clueless. She was just damn lucky. If CG had lost some more challenges, rather than SJ, she’d have been the next one gone. She was NO help in challenges, especially physical ones. She wasn’t real helpful in getting water, either. It was Jan and Helen who got lost than one time, when Helen said if she’d had a gun, she’s have shot Jan first and herself second. If she had, in a confessional, stepped out of that Batty Jan character and become serious and said, “Yeah, they think I’m looney and harmless…they’re falling for my plan!” then I’d give her a lot more credit, but I think she was just there for a free vacation. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/65 "2002-12-20T22:05:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pashnish Ewing \* > I don’t see how any other strategy would have put Jan in a better position to win. Nonsense. If she and Helen vote against one of the men, they have a 50-50 chance of going to the final jury vote–it’s all up to a tiebreaker. And even the tiebreaker was another stupid purple rock, she’s still got a 75% chance of making it to F3–and she’s still guaranteed F3 if the tiebreaker (whatever it is) is only between the two people who are tied. By voting against Helen and becoming the obvious third wheel, Granny Jannie was reduced to no better than a 1/3 chance of reaching the F2. (And given that she had proven herself incapable of winning anything, her real chances were negligible.) Tiebreaker or not, Jan’s chances were better voting against the boys than voting with them. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/66 "2002-12-20T22:15:56Z")
Of course, if Jan hadn’t gone along with them, Brian and Clay would have tried switching back to the plan they’d told Helen about: the three of them voting off Jan. Still, telling Helen about Brian and Clay’s treachery probably would have been enough to keep Helen on Jan’s side against the men. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/67 "2002-12-20T22:50:21Z")
I think the only reason Brian wanted Jan in the Final Three was because he knew it would be some sort of endurance challenge, as it had been in other Survivors, like holding onto the idol for as long as you can, and he knew she’d never last. He had **no intention** of taking Helen to the Final Three. How long _did_ that Coin-Holding thing last? The last time stamp I saw was 8 minutes. Was that when Jan pooped out? How much longer did Clay last? If I’d been doing it, I would have immediately (and purposely) dropped the 4 coins between my pinky and ring fingers, and between my ring fingers and middle fingers, and just concentrating on holding the two between my first fingers and middle fingers. The others would have made your hands cramp up, and it was too many coins to keep track of. That was a horrible position to stand in. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/68 "2002-12-21T00:43:53Z")
It was about 15 minutes, as I recall. Clay dropped out right after Jan did–no need to go any further with Brian in his corner. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/69 "2002-12-21T02:59:08Z")
Fifteen minutes, huh? I guess Probst was tired of those marathon 6-hour Keep-Your-Hand-On-The-Idol challenges. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![roadrunner70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19b73/32.png) [@roadrunner70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roadrunner70)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/70 "2002-12-21T03:06:35Z")
I’m just glad it’s over…now, if I could just unglue my wife from 24… ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/71 "2002-12-21T03:27:21Z")
Ooooh, _24_… I love _24_! I want Santa to bring me Kiefer Sutherland for Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2002, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/72 "2002-12-21T09:11:43Z")
I have to say that my respect for Helen grew during the final epsiode(s). I have to give her credit for speaking her mind. And, of course, for being big enough to admit that Brian had played her well. And who didn’t laugh when Jeff asked her if she would have changed her vote after seeing the show? That was hilarious. “Even if it meant voting for Clay, who you…” “It’d be hard.” ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/73 "2002-12-22T03:28:36Z")
ThatGuy said: > [@](#): > > Just as a note I will be attending dinner this evening with Jan from Survivor She is a friend of the family, I was going to watch the finale in her company last night however she had a number of promotional things she needed to do ( the reunion wasn’t REALLY live by the way) Uh, speaking as somebody who was **there** , I’m afraid you’re wrong. It was live (other than the 5-second tape delay to make sure nobody said something naughty). Now, if you happen to live on the West Coast (which, according to your location, you don’t), it was not SHOWN live because everything is delayed there. I do have to wonder how you thought you were going to be watching the finale with her since she had to be backstage at the L.A. CBS studio and then was immediately whisked off to a post-show party and press stuff. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/74 "2002-12-23T01:59:19Z")
OK, now that I have a few more minutes, here are a few more comments: **elf6c** said of Jan: > [@](#): > > She did nothing strategically. Well, not quite. She _did_ plot to get rid of Clay early on – she just didn’t do a very good job of it and Ghandia was booted instead. Other than that, as has been mentioned, staying low on the radar can be a working strategy. It’s not one I admire, I’ll admit, but it got her farther than all but two others! Also: > [@](#): > > I had given up on the reunions after last year’s was so bad. Anyone know of a good summary online of the reunion show? Not yet, but I’m working on it. Normally, I’d have had it up that night or the next morning, but since I was actually at the show, I haven’t been able to do it (couldn’t exactly take notes while sitting in the audience). **puddleglum** said: > [@](#): > > I think that Brian is definitely the best Survivor player ever. Well… Second best. Rich Hatch is still the king. **Libertarian** said, of the reunion show: > [@](#): > > It’s the first good one I’ve seen. Jeff asked all the questions I wanted to ask, and he didn’t let them weasel, either. I agree completely. I even went up to Probst after the show was over, shook his hand, and told him it was the best ever. It was so nice to see somebody who actually KNEW what had happened on the show asking the questions (as opposed to Bryant Gumbel) – and he was willing and ready to ask the tough ones; can you see Rosie O’Donnell asking about the whole Ghandia/Ted situation? Not a chance. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/75 "2002-12-23T13:55:45Z")
Thank you **David B**! I will keep an eye on your site. Any word on the “changes” for the next season? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/76 "2002-12-23T15:49:56Z")
More fun with Brian: > [@](#): > > . . . > > Firstly, how did Brian feel about his porn past going public? “Well,” the Virgins of Sherwood Forest star tells TV Guide Online, "I just want to clarify that I do have off Broadway credits, as well as [theater] training. I had a contract role on the soap opera Days of Our Lives. I played Tim Rollins. > > “So I showed my butt for a couple of T&A flicks,” he shrugs. “It’s funny how Michael Douglas and Bruce Willis do the same thing for a few million dollars and they consider it art, but I do something for [a lower] budget and it’s considered soft porn. It’s all perception — and I hope you enjoy the performance!” > > Is it true policeman Ken Stafford “figured out” Brian’s past during their time on Koh Tarutao? “Ken is full of crap,” the 34-year-old insists. “He never figured out anything. We never had a conversation about it on the island. We talked about a few people in the [entertainment] industry, and that’s it. Him just saying that was completely a false statement. Ken is like a younger brother, and is a little immature and has a lot of growing up to do. I expected a lot more out of Ken.” > > Movin’ on… How is Brian’s married life these days? Last time we looked, Mrs. Charmaine Heidik was facing spousal abuse charges. “We’re working it out, my wife and I,” he says. "She was at the [Survivor finale] and everything’s great. We’re going to have a great Christmas. It was strictly the judge’s decision to keep us 100 yards away [from one another]. Of course, [the restraining order was lifted] once they found out I wasn’t pressing any charges. > > . . . [http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/](http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/) ---
**Author:** ![booklover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@booklover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booklover)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/77 "2002-12-23T18:29:08Z")
I just have to share that I found out Saturday that my mom goes to the same church as Brian’s mother. We were baking cookies and she mentioned that one of her friends was following Survivor closely because “the son of some woman that goes to our church was on there”. She was fascinated to find out about his porn background–I get the feeling there’s going to be some fun gossip going on in her Bible study group from now on! ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/78 "2002-12-24T00:16:45Z")
elf6c asked: > [@](#): > > Any word on the “changes” for the next season? Not yet. It would be fun to speculate, but I really have no idea. If I’d thought about it, I should have tried to catch Probst in a discussion about it. Ah well, he probably wouldn’t have fallen for it anyway. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/79 "2002-12-24T01:54:51Z")
My suggestion for putting an interesting spin on the two tribes half of the show and also dealing with the problem of old tribal loyalties making it obvious how the initial merged voting will go: First day, split the players into two tribes randomly. They live that way through the first immunity challenge and the first tribal council. However, right after the tribal council, both tribes gather at some spot and are then randomly split into two tribes again. The newly grouped tribes live that way for three days, immunity challenge, tribal council, then are again randomly split into two tribes. Imagine how hard it would be in the first half to keep a coherent strategy if the person you formed an alliance with might end up on the other tribe in three days? Guaranteed to keep the two tribes as evenly matched on numbers as possible.(neither tribe would ever have more than one member more than the other tribe) throughout the first half. With players constantly shifting between the two tribes, what sort of “old tribal loyalties” would there be after the merge? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777/80 "2002-12-24T02:30:06Z")
Interesting. I think I like it! Other possibilities include three original tribes (or even four), but I suspect they won’t do that because it would be too difficult to televise and get something about everybody to the viewers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-18-the-finale/143777.md?page=5)