# Survivor 12/2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689 "2004-12-02T14:18:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/41 "2004-12-03T16:36:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Actually, it was pretty easy to tell what the outcome was going to be just by looking at the TV time left once TC started. There simply wasn’t enough time to work out a tie, so it had to be Ami getting booted. We knew Scout, Twila, and Christ were voting for Ami, so with no time to work out a tie, Eliza had to be voting for Ami as well. Heh! That’s the first thing I asked **supervenusfreak** when Peachy Probst went to get the vote urn. “What time is it?” We figured there wasn’t a tie because of that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/42 "2004-12-03T16:54:16Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > We knew Scout, Twila, and Christ were voting for Ami Wow, how nasty do you have to be that even Jesus wants to vote you out? ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/43 "2004-12-03T17:17:11Z")
Yes. The Christ vote is very important! A few random thoughts: - “At least I still have my integrity”- the calling card of the reality TV loser! Think this will be a bitter finale/reunion or will everyone get all zen and blame the editing? I’m betting on nastiness. - I will say, Ami’s effort to get back in the game made for good television. She didn’t have much chance because she only had something to offer to one player and not the needed two players. Chris’s “What? Am I stupid?!” was priceless. - I love that at least Ami admitted she was cocky! - I liked that the RC allowed for win, place and show. It made the battle for third interesting. Julie vs. Chris actually had some significance in the game. - I’m not sure I disagree with **Standup Karmic** about Chris being the greater physical threat. I think of the players remaining Eliza is the far greater threat. I think Chris and Julie are about on par with each other. As Chris notes, it is rather humiliating that he finally wins a challenge after all these weeks and it is shuffleboard (FYI- I liked the shuffleboard game. It was something different and it had strategy. With a good looking design, I truly enjoyed it.) - Chris clearly doesn’t understand the tie break rules, but based on what has been written here, neither do I. I didn’t watch Marquesas, but I thought that if you won immunity you did not pull for the purple rock no matter what. I thought everyone BUT the player with immunity would do so. Wasn’t the Paschal tie-break before the merge (where no one had individual immunity?) - It has become clear to me that Burnett is getting people to say things that could lead the viewers to believe that they are going to vote against obvious wisdom. I’m not accusing him of vote fixing, but I think he says to them, “Ok, Eliza. IF you were going to vote with Ami, give me the confessional that you would be using right now.” Kind of like he forces them to be hypothetical. “Say something bad about Twila…” So, with a final 5 in place, here is my depth chart (best chance to worst): 1. Chris- Barring bad luck, I think Chris is in the driver’s seat. No one hates Chris. I don’t see a final two parring he loses. He has just enough physical competition in Eliza and Julie that he doesn’t threaten anyone. 2. Twila- Cannot beat Chris unless Ami realizes she hates men more than she hates Twila. 3. Scout- I don’t see how she can win. I think she makes the final three because she is terribly uncompetetive in the challenges. Who could she beat? Her versus Twila results in a split of the female vote and Twila getting the men’s vote. 4. Eliza- I think she would have a decent chance against only Scout. OF the remaining players, the men’s block would vote for anyone else except MAYBE Scout. The men are more likely here to admire her physical dominance. Chris might even speak up for her. The problem is, she’s a bit of a Jenna Lewis. 5. Julie- Barring an immunity run, she is next. Of the remaining players, she would vote for Eliza. Her preferences after that would likely be Chris, Scout and then Twila. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/44 "2004-12-03T17:23:48Z")
> [@Balduran](#): > > Wow, how nasty do you have to be that even Jesus wants to vote you out? Well, you see it all ties into “Lost”. Chris is actually Alex, who is Christ in the 2nd coming. Vanuatu is the island that the plane crashed on, and Christ was not on the plane’s manifest. Didn’t you notice that this Survivor had 18 people instead of the usual 16? And that means one of the remaining contestants is the anti-Christ. This is going to be one hell of a surprise ending (no pun intended)! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/45 "2004-12-03T17:31:55Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Well, you see it all ties into “Lost”. Chris is actually Alex, who is Christ in the 2nd coming. Vanuatu is the island that the plane crashed on, and Christ was not on the plane’s manifest. Didn’t you notice that this Survivor had 18 people instead of the usual 16? And that means one of the remaining contestants is the anti-Christ. This is going to be one hell of a surprise ending (no pun intended)! 🙂 But where does the damn polar bear come in?! ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/46 "2004-12-03T17:37:58Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > - Chris clearly doesn’t understand the tie break rules, but based on what has been written here, neither do I. I didn’t watch Marquesas, but I thought that if you won immunity you did not pull for the purple rock no matter what. I thought everyone BUT the player with immunity would do so. Wasn’t the Paschal tie-break before the merge (where no one had individual immunity?) The purple rock tie-breaker was during the final 4, I believe. It was down to Neleh, Paschal, Kathy and…ummm…someone else I forget. 😃 Anyway, I forget who had immunity, but Paschal and Neleh voted as a block, and Kathy and the other person voted togther, and there was a tie. I think the vote getters were 2 for Kathy and 2 for Neleh. JP told them to discuss it among themselves and if they couldn’t break the tie by changing someone’s mind, ALL of the non-immunity people would have to draw stones from a bag and the purple rock drawer was the loser. Paschal drew the purple rock and got booted, even though he wasn’t one of the two people who had been voted for. A lot of people found this to be unfair, but as someone mentioned earlier, it worked…the threat of unfair booting if there’s a tie has effectively prevented there from being a tie in any subsequent games. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/47 "2004-12-03T17:39:23Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > Chris clearly doesn’t understand the tie break rules, but based on what has been written here, neither do I. I didn’t watch Marquesas, but I thought that if you won immunity you did not pull for the purple rock no matter what. I thought everyone BUT the player with immunity would do so. Wasn’t the Paschal tie-break before the merge (where no one had individual immunity?) No. Paschal made it to F4. Vecepia had immunity and she and Kathy worked out a deal where V kept immunity and agreed not to vote out Kathy. There were two votes for Neleh (Kathy & V) and two for Kathy (Neleh & Paschal). Only Kathy, Neleh, and Paschal had to pick rocks (V remained immune), and Paschal picked the unlucky purple one. Incidentally, because of what happened to Paschal in Marquesas, Burnett supposedly changed the tie-breaker system. Of course, we’ll never see it, because these people (I am thinking here of Jenna Lewis in last year’s F4) are too chicken-shit (and perhaps too greedy) to stand by their “convictions” and vote their “consciences,” assuming they ever had any to begin with. (Sorry, that was cranky, but I just hate this entire season and think things really need to change next time or I am cancelling my TiVo Season Pass for “Survivor.” Harumph.) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/48 "2004-12-03T18:13:59Z")
> [@Jadis](#): > > Anyway, I forget who had immunity, but Paschal and Neleh voted as a block, and Kathy and the other person voted togther, and there was a tie. I think the vote getters were 2 for Kathy and 2 for Neleh. JP told them to discuss it among themselves and if they couldn’t break the tie by changing someone’s mind, ALL of the non-immunity people would have to draw stones from a bag and the purple rock drawer was the loser. Paschal drew the purple rock and got booted, even though he wasn’t one of the two people who had been voted for. I believe it was Paschal that had immunity that episode. God, was he a wonderful person to have in Survivor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/49 "2004-12-03T18:27:23Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > But where does the damn polar bear come in?! The last challenge is an Elimination Challenge. Tree mail will say “You don’t have to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest contestant!” ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/50 "2004-12-03T18:37:57Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I believe it was Paschal that had immunity that episode. God, was he a wonderful person to have in Survivor. **rockle** covered it better than I did above. Vecepia (der…the winner!) was the person whose name I couldn’t recall, and she’s the one who had immunity. The unfairness of the Paschal boot wasn’t that he’d had immunity, it was that he wasn’t one of the two people caught in the tie, but he was punished anyway. By not settling it amongst themselves, everyone became vulnerable to the boot, not just the vote-getters. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/51 "2004-12-03T18:54:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The last challenge is an Elimination Challenge. Tree mail will say “You don’t have to run faster than the bear, just faster than the slowest contestant!” Well, _that_ doesn’t sound good for Scout… ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/52 "2004-12-03T19:02:34Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, _that_ doesn’t sound good for Scout… lol 😃 I don’t particularly like her, but it’s hard to not feel bad for Scout during the challenges. She barely reached the water before the others were back with their first flags. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/53 "2004-12-03T19:04:04Z")
> [@Jadis](#): > > **rockle** covered it better than I did above. Vecepia (der…the winner!) was the person whose name I couldn’t recall, and she’s the one who had immunity. The unfairness of the Paschal boot wasn’t that he’d had immunity, it was that he wasn’t one of the two people caught in the tie, but he was punished anyway. By not settling it amongst themselves, everyone became vulnerable to the boot, not just the vote-getters. Bingo. That rings a much clearer bell. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/54 "2004-12-03T20:43:00Z")
RE: The “Pick A Rock” thing. Didn’t they send them back to vote a second time, and the votes were the same? That’s when they pulled out the bag with the rocks? And they’ve never used the “Pick-a-rock” thing to break a tie again, but someone **always** brings it up as a what-if in case of a tie. I wish TPTB would tell them that they’re not going to use it, if that’s truly the case. I wondered if Chris brought it up because Jeff or someone on the production staff said they’d be using it in case of a tie. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/55 "2004-12-03T21:23:45Z")
But either way, Chris would have been safe last night, right? Immunity is absolute unless you surrender it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/56 "2004-12-03T22:17:12Z")
I’d like to know that myself. Chris’s explanation during his confessional was strange — something about the vote-getters drawing the stones after two ties, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/57 "2004-12-03T22:29:37Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > But either way, Chris would have been safe last night, right? Immunity is absolute unless you surrender it. Correctomundo!! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/58 "2004-12-03T22:58:28Z")
> [@watsonwil](#): > > - “At least I still have my integrity”- the calling card of the reality TV loser! I’d like to point out something, here. Every season seems to have at least one player determined to win the game as honestly as possible. For all that she came across as kind of a man-hating bitch, I think Ami went farther with this strategy than anybody else has–the others all got voted off earlier (Hi, Butch!), or stayed in and started lying (Hi, Lillian!). She sucks for other reasons, true, but she _was_ honest. > [@](#): > > - I love that at least Ami admitted she was cocky! How cocky do you have to be to tell somebody “our 3-person alliance is going to vote you four guys off one at a time”? Pretty damn cocky. > [@](#): > > - I liked that the RC allowed for win, place and show. I think they’ve figured out that they really need to feed these people more. That girl in Australia who got so malnourished her hair started falling out? I don’t think we’re going to see that level of survival in the future… ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/59 "2004-12-03T23:05:44Z")
But that girl is now a host of the View! I’ll bet any of these other skanks would take that in a second! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689/60 "2004-12-04T00:04:45Z")
The really interesting thing about that honesty strategy is that people keep trying it even though it has _never worked._ They get halfway through the show on honor and integrity, and then either turn into lying bastards or get voted off, and in either case, seem totally gobsmacked that it ended up that way… people, the previous seasons are out on DVD. Rent them for chrissakes before you pack your toothbrush… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-2/277689.md?page=4)