# Survivor 12/4/08 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794 "2008-12-05T01:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/41 "2008-12-06T17:50:45Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Why would Kenny expect Corinne to play the idol anyway? I can only think of a couple of scenarios that went on: > > [ol] > [li] If Corinne believes she’s tight with Kenny and Crystal, she wouldn’t play it because she doesn’t need to.[/li][li] Kenny convinces Corrine that either he or Crystal can’t be trusted to vote for Matty. This tells Bob and Corinne that they can’t trust K&C and need to find new allies.[/li][/ol] > > I can’t see how Kenny would have thought Corinne would feel the need to play it. It certainly was the worst possible outcome for Kenny. Now neither alliance can trust him. Kenny certainly shot himself in the foot. Bob and Corinne go to him with their plan and tell him “We don’t want to play the idol tonight.” Then he decides to double blindside them and ensure that Corinne goes in case the idol is fake by splitting the vote. Then Corinne doesn’t play the idol (just like she said) and she goes home. How any of Kenny’s problems are now Bob’s fault is beyond me. Of course, now that Corinne and her cartoon evilness are gone, it’s a bonus for us viewers. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/42 "2008-12-06T18:19:52Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Bob and Corrinne don’t know that Sugar found the immunity necklace. Bob likely _does_ know. Remember, he followed the clues on Exile “Island”, and the immunity idol wasn’t there at the end. 2+2. And the others certainly know. I like Sugar, but I can’t believe they haven’t taken her out, or at least forced her to use the idol. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/43 "2008-12-06T18:26:19Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Bob likely _does_ know. Remember, he followed the clues on Exile “Island”, and the immunity idol wasn’t there at the end. 2+2. > > And the others certainly know. I like Sugar, but I can’t believe they haven’t taken her out, or at least forced her to use the idol. Bob followed the clues and, at the end, couldn’t find the next location. He didn’t see the peg where the necklace was hung from (or at least the editors didn’t show him seeing it). For all he knew, there could have been another clue there. Crystal certainly knows, since she searched Sugar’s bag to find the necklace there. Kenny knows since Crystal told him. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/44 "2008-12-06T18:49:59Z")
Have any of you mentioned before the unusualness of the way the votes are read? Jeff announces the first vote as he pulls it out of the box. But the cameras cut away on the other votes so that they actually could be pulled on in any order. He doesn’t say, “The second vote is for…” I think they arrange the order in which they present the votes. It seems a little strange, but as long as the votes aren’t rigged, I’m fine with it. I think I like Crystal more than some of you seem to. Sometimes she can be just like a little kid. And she has these enormously beautiful eyes. I wonder if Sugar even knows what that is that she’s wearing around her neck. Ha! I saw that necklace in a catalogue since the show started. I would be happy with a Bob, Sugar or Matty win. I wasn’t for Matty until he got engaged. If Bob wins the million dollars, he can just keep on teaching until it is all gone. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/45 "2008-12-06T18:59:11Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Have any of you mentioned before the unusualness of the way the votes are read? Jeff announces the first vote as he pulls it out of the box. But the cameras cut away on the other votes so that they actually could be pulled on in any order. He doesn’t say, “The second vote is for…” I think they arrange the order in which they present the votes. It seems a little strange, but as long as the votes aren’t rigged, I’m fine with it. Jeff goes away to get the clues and, while he’s off-camera, they rearrange them so he pulls them out in the right order for maximum dramatic impact. No fancy editing required. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/46 "2008-12-06T19:02:40Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Have any of you mentioned before the unusualness of the way the votes are read? Jeff announces the first vote as he pulls it out of the box. But the cameras cut away on the other votes so that they actually could be pulled on in any order. He doesn’t say, “The second vote is for…” I think they arrange the order in which they present the votes. It seems a little strange, but as long as the votes aren’t rigged, I’m fine with it. Yeah, it’s been noted before that they definitely arrange it so that the order in which the votes are read builds the maximum amount of drama/tension. They must do this before the votes are read, not during editing, because Jeff keeps a running tally of the votes. For example, “Three votes Corrinne, three votes Matty, one vote left.” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/47 "2008-12-06T19:28:51Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Yeah, it’s been noted before that they definitely arrange it so that the order in which the votes are read builds the maximum amount of drama/tension. They must do this before the votes are read, not during editing, because Jeff keeps a running tally of the votes. For example, “Three votes Corrinne, three votes Matty, one vote left.” They seem to also try to keep enough mystery in the voting to get viewers to stick around until the credits, when all the votes and who made them are revealed. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/48 "2008-12-06T22:16:05Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I like Sugar, but I can’t believe they haven’t taken her out, or at least forced her to use the idol. If Sugar has the HII then it therefore means that Bob or Corinne does not have the HII. Why flush the idol out? it could mean it’s next owner is someone you don’t want to have it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/49 "2008-12-06T22:31:36Z")
There was that idol that they threw into the ocean as well. Bob might be able to convince the others that there was some sleight-of-hand that kept it on the island. Or not. It’s conceivable (but didn’t happen, else they’d show it) that the idol washed ashore and someone could find it. So there could technically be two idols in play. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/50 "2008-12-07T02:35:29Z")
Do the contestants get to see who voted for whom? I know they can often work it out, but do they know it for sure? ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/51 "2008-12-07T02:52:16Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Do the contestants get to see who voted for whom? I know they can often work it out, but do they know it for sure? No, its anonymous. At tribal, the players in turn go to a voting station and vote with their backs to the other players. Unless someone shares how they vote (or yells trash talk at the camera as Crystal does), the other players can’t know for sure who voted for whom. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/52 "2008-12-07T02:56:54Z")
With all the scheming going on this season with Bob and Sugar and Kenny, wouldn’t it have been awesome to have Cirie on as well? I’d love to see how her mastermind would have everyone mindfucked right now. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/53 "2008-12-07T03:00:57Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > No, its anonymous. At tribal, the players in turn go to a voting station and vote with their backs to the other players. Unless someone shares how they vote (or yells trash talk at the camera as Crystal does), the other players can’t know for sure who voted for whom. OK, so all Matty knows at this stage, unless someone spills the beans, is that someone in his alliance voted for him, but he does not know who. So Kenny has not necessarily shot himself in the foot unless Matty can work it out that it was Kenny who voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/54 "2008-12-07T05:05:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > There was that idol that they threw into the ocean as well. Bob might be able to convince the others that there was some sleight-of-hand that kept it on the island. Or not. It’s conceivable (but didn’t happen, else they’d show it) that the idol washed ashore and someone could find it. So there could technically be two idols in play. That’s what Bob did in this episode. Bob and Corrine convinced Kenny that Marcus had kept it through slight of hand and then Bob made up a fake idol and used it to convince Crystal. Afterwards, Kenny convinced Crystal to switch her vote back to Corrine (in order to flush out Corrine’s ‘idol’). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/55 "2008-12-07T05:12:48Z")
> [@AHarris](#): > > That’s what Bob did in this episode. I know. I was responding to **notfrommensa** who said, ’ Sugar has the HII then it therefore means that Bob or Corinne does not have the HII.’ This is true, as there is only one HII. (OK, technically the sunken one was hidden; but it was a ‘gimme’.) My point was that the first idol could plausibly have been purloined and hidden, just as Bob lied; so the fact that Sugar has the HII doesn’t necessarily mean that Bob or Corinne didn’t/don’t. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/56 "2008-12-07T15:24:39Z")
I’ve often wondered if the embellishments a lot of players put on their votes are used to ‘prove’ they voted as they said they would. You know, the giant block letters, the “O” turned into a smiley face, the flower in the corner, that kind of thing. Most of the time they could be just whims, but at crucial points, like when a swing voter has promised to join a particular faction in return for some promise or other, it could be important for “Mary” to be able to ‘prove’ she indeed voted for “Bill,” in case some other member of that alliance is pulling a fast one. That way, if Bill only gets four votes instead of the five expected, the swing voter won’t be damned. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/57 "2008-12-07T18:20:50Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’ve often wondered if the embellishments a lot of players put on their votes are used to ‘prove’ they voted as they said they would. You know, the giant block letters, the “O” turned into a smiley face, the flower in the corner, that kind of thing. > > Most of the time they could be just whims, but at crucial points, like when a swing voter has promised to join a particular faction in return for some promise or other, it could be important for “Mary” to be able to ‘prove’ she indeed voted for “Bill,” in case some other member of that alliance is pulling a fast one. That way, if Bill only gets four votes instead of the five expected, the swing voter won’t be damned. I think that seems likely. I’ve also supposed that its used sometimes to soften the blow and curry favor with that nights victim/future jury member; the voter is sending a clear signal that they voted for the victim, which might be seen as refreshing honesty and perhaps no hard feelings. Or the victim already knows some or all of who is voting them off because of previous discussions, and a voter is wishing them well, nothing personal. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/58 "2008-12-08T14:00:41Z")
[Here’s where Bob (and Corrine) got the doodads for the Fake Idol.](http://www.comcast.net/tv/insidesurvivor/731/castawayinterviewcorinnekaplan/) > [@](#): > > Gordon: The fake immunity idol was phenomenal. Is there some craft store where Bob’s getting the pieces from? > Corinne: That’s a good question. People think that Bob smuggled them in his (expletive deleted) or something. > Gordon: That’s an idol I wouldn’t want. > Corinne: Exactly. Do you remember when I paid $500 for a clue? > Gordon: Yes. > Corinne: Well, we decided obviously that the pieces had to be from something people didn’t recognize, so we can’t just take them off of the Nobag flag. So we took the beads that came from around my clue. There were these beads around it on this rope. So we used those and woke up at, I don’t know, 4 in the morning and took all the metal pieces off of the Tribal Council torches. ---
**Author:** ![Borborygmi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/borborygmi/32/217_2.png) [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/59 "2008-12-08T14:24:07Z")
Thanks for posting that, **singular1**! That’s a great info nugget, especially for those of us who don’t have the stomach for finding and combing through interviews with Corinne Kaplan. Pretty damn resourceful on Bob and Corinne. I choose to believe it was all Bob’s idea. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794/60 "2008-12-08T14:34:14Z")
You’re welcome, **Borborygmi**. I’m still scraping slime off from wading through that hateful bitch’s rants. Gah! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-12-4-08/475794.md?page=4)