# Survivor 2-Hour FINALE 05/11/2003 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325 "2003-05-10T15:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/141 "2003-05-14T19:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*While I’m sure Rob will milk it for all it’s worth–and the guy appears to be genuinely funny, so more power to him–it’s also entirely clear that Rob was dead serious about playing and winning the game. > > Incidentally, would anyone have any interest in a How to Win at Survivor thread? David B’s article is great, but this season has plenty of its own lessons in it, and it could be fun to see everyone’s strategies.\*\* Of course he played to win, and he’s a smart guy. But I’m sick of seeing aspiring actors & actresses using Survivor as a jump start on their career. It’s much more satisfying to me to see “normal” people battling it out & I feel much better about them winning a million bucks. There’s no shortage of good looking interesting people in this country. Do they have to keep going for models, etc? Sure they do have normal people too, and some of them might decide to do the celebrity thing later, but I don’t think there should be any aspiring “stars” of any kind on the show. Like I said before, Survivor is more Star Search than it should be. Your idea for HTWAS thread is a good one. There are a lot of pretty smart brains on this board. I was thinking we need a list of essential skills you really should have before going. You know, you really should know how to make a fire, build shelter, fish, identify native plants that can be used for food, spice, medicine, soap etc. That’s besides all the conniving skills. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/142 "2003-05-14T21:40:07Z")
There is so much talk about who played the game well but I can’t help but wonder if the only proof that you played well was that you won. I’m not sure someone has to be aware of what they’re doing to be playing well. It’s a little like watching a chess match between a master and a novice. Imagine that the novice just stumbled along and somehow guessed the best moves to win the game. The question then is, “Did they play the game well?” Well, yes - but they didn’t comprehend it. Does that matter? I don’t know, they still won. I guess whether or not you think someone played the game well depends on if you think that their comprehension of the game matters (more) or if they won matters (more). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/143 "2003-05-15T01:07:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\* > Incidentally, would anyone have any interest in a How to Win at Survivor thread? David B’s article is great, but this season has plenty of its own lessons in it, and it could be fun to see everyone’s strategies. > \*\* FWIW, I started a [HTWAS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=162880&highlight=survivor) a few months back. Most of the responses referred to the NRO site. ---
**Author:** ![EhhMon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@EhhMon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EhhMon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/144 "2003-05-15T08:27:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by levdrakon \* > \*\*Of course he played to win, and he’s a smart guy. But I’m sick of seeing aspiring actors & actresses using Survivor as a jump start on their career. It’s much more satisfying to me to see “normal” people battling it out & I feel much better about them winning a million bucks. There’s no shortage of good looking interesting people in this country. Do they have to keep going for models, etc? Sure they do have normal people too, and some of them might decide to do the celebrity thing later, but I don’t think there should be any aspiring “stars” of any kind on the show. Like I said before, Survivor is more Star Search than it should be. > > \*\* They tried that with Survivor Africa and the ratings went down fast. I think most people would rather see pretty people than normal unattractive people anyways. If you had the option of watching Woody Allen and Colby or Phillis Diller and Pamela Anderson, who would you watch…? ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/145 "2003-05-15T19:23:43Z")
Ahhhh yeah. Sweet redemption. Didn’t I _tell_ you guys it was all a damn lottery? That Richard Hatch was just as lucky as the rest? That there’s _no_ “winning strategy”? This reminds me of every March Madness, where countless prognostigators analyze, ponder, reason, think, hash, and chew, and end up completely convinced that they have the perfect bracket. And then a #2 seed gets positively creamed, and a cement-footed tub of a forward nails two critical 3-pointers, and a 95% free point shooter bricks four _straight_ charity tosses in the final minute (invariably accompanied by the obligatory comment about how he’s a great free throw shooter, especially in crunch time), and a third-string shooting guard who never had more than 2 points a game the entire regular season explodes for 40, and everything gets shot to hell. And the winner is the guy who made his picks with a dartboard. Or a random number generator. This happens _every single year_. So why should it be any surprise that an “undeserving” player won on a reality show? That **is** reality. Sometimes the Tina beats the Colby. Sometimes David absolutely takes Goliath’s head off. Sometimes the favorite barely avoids dead last. It happens. It’ll always happen. Cest la Survivor, baby. Sheesh, what’s it gonna take before you all believe me? Someone in a _coma_ half the time winning? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/146 "2003-05-15T20:43:51Z")
Recall how two weeks ago, Jenna and Heidi were on the block; but Jenna’s tonsilitis kept her in the game. So either: a) Jenna was incredibily lucky to make the final 4, thanks to a timely illness and a huge miscalculation on Rob’s part as to how sick/ how big a threat she was; or b) It was a brilliant piece of strategy on Jenna’s part to fake tonsilitis and gamble on being kept in just for that reason, which, of course, meant stabbing her buddy Heidi in the back. I’m going with (a). ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/147 "2003-05-15T23:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DKW \* > \*\*Ahhhh yeah. Sweet redemption. > > Didn’t I _tell_ you guys it was all a damn lottery? That Richard Hatch was just as lucky as the rest? That there’s _no_ “winning strategy”?\*\* Before you strain something patting yourself on the back, please point out where anyone said that luck doesn’t play a part. > [@](#): > > \*\*Sheesh, what’s it gonna take before you all believe me? Someone in a _coma_ half the time winning? 🙂 \*\* Yeah, that would convince me that strategy plays no part whatsoever. Until that happens, though, I’ll stick with my opinion that in fact _it does_. Luck matters, strategy matters, looks matter, work matters…lots of things matter. But to say that luck is the _only_ factor is as ridiculous as saying that only strategy is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/148 "2003-05-16T00:46:42Z")
The really annoying part is that it seems Jenna won because of a single factor; her good looks. Which basically means that the entire series was pretty much decided from the first day. What were the other players going to do to counter this? Impromptu plastic surgery with their machetes? ---
**Author:** ![survivorology.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@survivorology.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survivorology.com)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/149 "2003-05-17T02:20:51Z")
We all feel betrayed because Jenna was the sole survivor. Even the sympathy given to Jenna on this site is, at best, luke warm. We have to blame someone for Jenna winning. The easiest target is the jury. How could they vote for Jenna: Only one explanation – The jury is vapid. I cannot buy it. There were far too many intelligent players in this game, especially Deena and Rob, who voted for Jenna. Smart during the game, and vapid on the jury? There must be another explanation. The jury had to have another reason to vote either for Jenna or against Matt. I would love to know why, but I don’t think I will ever find out. On most reunion shows, there is considerable time spent discussing why jurors voted for the winner or the runner up. This time, Jeff only asked one juror, Christy. And Christy gave a very brief, uninspired answer. She said that Jenna deserved to win because she outlasted her? I don’t buy it. In his chat on the Survivor web page after being voted out, Rob said he voted for Jenna because she is the only Survivor who kicked him out of the game? I don’t buy it. During the game, Christy and Rob were both very honest with the camera and telling the whole audience what they thought of other people. Both gave great detail and strong insights for their feelings about fellow players, including HeiDDi and Jenna. Neither of them expressed any animosity towards Matt. And all of the sudden, neither of them have more than a few uninspired words about the winner of the game? Were they this blase when casting their votes? I don’t buy it. The only explanation I can think of is that Mark Burnett Productions and CBS are trying to hide something from us. The jury had some reason to vote the way they did and they are not allowed to tell the truth. Each contestant has a contract with Mark Burnett Productions that limits what they can say about the game. And something happened before or during the game that the producers do not want us to know that caused the jurors to vote for Jenna. But why? I would love to hear other theories. Here is my best one: A profile of Matthew appeared in People magazine’s Fifty Hottest Bachelors edition. I have heard (unsubstantiated) that the producers for Survivor sought Matthew out and asked him to apply. Because of this, Matthew may have received preferential treatment during auditions and the other contestants found out about this. This may have caused members of the jury to vote against Matthew, and be forbidden from speaking about why they voted for Jenna. The truth is out there. Please let us find out! [survivorology@hotmail.com](mailto:survivorology@hotmail.com) [http://www.survivorology.com](http://www.survivorology.com) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/150 "2003-05-17T05:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EhhMon \* > \*\*They tried that with Survivor Africa and the ratings went down fast. I think most people would rather see pretty people than normal unattractive people anyways. > > If you had the option of watching Woody Allen and Colby or Phillis Diller and Pamela Anderson, who would you watch…? \*\* I could walk down a main street in any medium to large city in this country & pick out scads of attractive interesting people who aren’t somehow “in the biz,” or otherwise seriously aspiring to be “in the biz.” > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by [survivorology.com](http://survivorology.com)_The only explanation I can think of is that Mark Burnett Productions and CBS are trying to hide something from us. The jury had some reason to vote the way they did and they are not allowed to tell the truth. Each contestant has a contract with Mark Burnett Productions that limits what they can say about the game. And something happened before or during the game that the producers do not want us to know that caused the jurors to vote for Jenna. But why? I’m with ya there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/151 "2003-05-17T05:33:16Z")
Guys, it’s a TV game show. Let’s not start looking for second gunmen. Deena voted for Jenna because she wanted a woman to win. Dave voted for her probably because Jenna was good looking and Matt was part of the group that stabbed him in the back. Heidi and Alex were part of Jenna’s alliance. Rob would have glaldly stabbed Jenna in the back for the million, but once he was out of the running he fell back on trying to impress the cute girls. Christy is the only inexplicable vote, which is why it’s no surprise Jeff asked only her. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/152 "2003-05-18T16:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Christy is the only inexplicable vote, which is why it’s no surprise Jeff asked only her. And she was unable to provide any kind of coherent answer. I am not big on conspiracy theories – but none of this makes any sense. Deena might want a woman to win – but I can’t believe she’s so blindered by that desire that she couldn’t tell that Jenna was a lazy slut and Matt played his ass off. > [@](#): > > Rob…fell back on trying to impress the cute girls. Oh, please. All of a sudden one of the best players ever is going to let Little Rob start making his decisions? I don’t think so. I don’t necessarily agree with **[survivorology.com](http://survivorology.com)**’s theory – but the overwhelming pro-Jenna vote is totally bizarre, and I have yet to hear an explanation that really makdes sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![survivorology.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@survivorology.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survivorology.com)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/153 "2003-05-18T17:11:43Z")
My other theory is that the jurors did not really know the kind of things Jenna was saying about them during the show. They did not see the same Jenna that we did. For example, Deena did not know that Jenna called her a fat old broad, as in “I slept with Dave last night, and I don’t know why he picked that fat old broad to go with him instead of me to go to the ice cream reward.” Perhaps some of them now regret that they voted for Jenna, so they are having a rough time explaining their vote. [http://www.survivorology.com](http://www.survivorology.com) [survivorology@hotmail.com](mailto:survivorology@hotmail.com) ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/154 "2003-05-18T18:02:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by twickster \* > \*\*Oh, please. All of a sudden one of the best players ever is going to let Little Rob start making his decisions? I don’t think so. > \*\* Why not? Rob wasn’t playing the game anymore. He had nothing to lose. Also, Rob respects game playing. Jenna didn’t exactly play a brilliant game, but she played at least as well as Matt. And let’s not forget that Rob was pissed at Matt for throwing the final IC. As for Christy, she didn’t like Jenna, but she didn’t like Matt either. (“He’s just creepy.”) Given a choice of two evils, as it were, she picked the girl. _shrug_ Anyway, all this conspiracy theory stuff is nonsense. There’s absolutely no motivation for it, and lots of negative consequences if they were caught. The US has laws about fixing game shows. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/155 "2003-05-19T13:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by twickster_ > Matt played his ass off. What he did wasn’t playing. He worked, but that doesn’t mean he deserves the million. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/156 "2003-05-19T13:40:44Z")
The bset conspiracy theory I’ve heard is on another board where people think that Matt asked the jury to vote for Jenna so she can have the money for her mom and that was edited out so people wouldn’t know the winner until the vote reading. That is the only conspiracy theory that I find halfway believable. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/157 "2003-05-20T06:28:20Z")
Ferrous - Geez, you make it sound like I’m actually _proud_ about the outcome or something. 🙂 I ain’t got no horse in this derby, bro. Just calling it like I see it. Seriously, I _want_ a reality program where skill matters a lot and the winner is always deserving. But Survivor isn’t it. Granted, there are ways to avoid becoming an obvious target, and a resourceful player can guarantee lasting _for a while_ (like Richard did). But anything that comes down to votes and challenges which don’t favor all the contestants equally, the fickle hand of lady luck is going to play a big part. Whatever, I just find it incredibly amusing whenever a lot of people claim to be able to predict the outcome of an event based on logic or what “should” happen, when even one twist of fate can throw everything to hell (that’s what I brought up the March Madness example for). I know this as much as anybody…I’ve tried to predict the outright winner, winner against the spread, and over/under for the past two Super Bowls…these are 50/50 picks, nowhere near as complicated as predicting the final order of four people. ALL SIX were wrong. That’s when I decided that anyone who acted all shocked over a wrong prediction was…well, a chump. Cest la Survivor. I don’t have the answer, and neither do you. (P.S.: Any contest where a howling waste of flesh like Flo whatshername has _any chance_ of winning has rescinded any claim to being a test of skill. IMHO.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325/158 "2003-05-20T07:04:06Z")
Ah, **DKW** , mi amigo, I think I begin to comprehend your problem. You’re equating “unpredictable” with “random.” The fact that we viewers are unable to reliably predict the outcome simply means that we don’t comprehend all the factors involved, because we only get to see a fraction of a percent of what goes on there. (But that doesn’t mean that skill doesn’t matter. ) Although I agree with you to some degree—I long ago gave up trying to predict what was going to happen. Well…maybe not, but I at least gave up expecting my predictions to be correct. But when I’m wrong (which is practically always), I don’t think it’s because the thing I was trying to predict was completely random, but because there was some information I didn’t have which affected the result. C’est la Survivor. I don’t have the answer, but I still have fun watching it. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-2-hour-finale-05-11-2003/174325.md?page=7)