# Survivor 39 (Island of the Idols) debuts 9/25/19! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437 "2019-09-18T15:26:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/101 "2019-10-25T17:57:01Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Honestly, losing out might not be the worst strategy. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/102 "2019-10-25T18:11:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Sort of. I don’t believe anyone but her knew it though. Yeah, but then she would have to decide what to do. Does she reveal it to the rest of her alliance? Does she just keep it secret and hope they can flip a vote? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/103 "2019-10-25T18:22:58Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > … > Karishma sucks at ALL the challenges, she is lazy around camp, AND she does nothing but whine about how she’s an outcast. Please let her go home. > > And I don’t understand why team after team continues to vote off strong players ahead of people who suck in challenges. The goal now should be to bond with players and win challenges so that your team has the advantage post-merge. > > I think the Sandra/BostonRob mentor thing is pretty much a bust. … Yep. gonegirl. Yeah, you vote off strong players AFTER the merge. Yeah, and I dont like Sandra. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/104 "2019-10-25T18:58:06Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I usually am sympathetic with players who are clearly on the outs, but in Karishma’s case, it’s so deserved. I mean, Cochran sucked at physical challenges, but he could do puzzles. And he was witty and self-deprecating, which helped redeem his shortcomings. > > Karishma sucks at ALL the challenges, she is lazy around camp, AND she does nothing but whine about how she’s an outcast. Agreed. I _want_ to like Karishma, but she makes it very difficult. She has zero in the way of physical, social, _or_ strategic game. I mean, what else is there? However, I don’t think Tom was a bad vote. It’s true that he probably would have given the old Vokai the most to worry about post-merge. True, it’s a bit of a double-edged sword in that it weakens their tribe a bit, but it’s not as if Tom was exactly burning up the challenges either. It’s a bit disappointing that neither Tom, Dean, nor Karishma even \*tried \*(at least that they showed us) to find any cracks in the Vokai. It may not have worked, but I would have at least started a conversation about how things were at the old camp: “So, Kellee, sounds like you and Janet don’t really trust Jamal. Now might be a good time to blindside him, and it’ll still be 4-3 at the next vote.” I usually like players who try to shake things up like that, instead of the passive “anybody but me” approach. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/105 "2019-10-25T19:10:33Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > It’s a bit disappointing that neither Tom, Dean, nor Karishma even \*tried \*(at least that they showed us) to find any cracks in the Vokai. It may not have worked, but I would have at least started a conversation about how things were at the old camp… I’m always disappointed when players don’t try but a couple of points… Karishma sort of did, she flipped. She’s effectively part of the team (for now). I’m betting that Dean went along with them conversationally as well. (The old Survivor adage: “as long as it’s not me”). I’m pretty sure Tom thought the vote was locked for Karishma so he didn’t try. Also, maybe they did but it got edited. The show has gotten out of control with its trick-fuck editing, imho. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/106 "2019-10-25T22:27:19Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Agreed. I _want_ to like Karishma, but she makes it very difficult. She has zero in the way of physical, social, _or_ strategic game. I mean, what else is there? > … She tried the old “feel sorry for me ploy” which actually is often a reason to boot someone. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/107 "2019-10-25T23:16:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Karishma sort of did, she flipped. She’s effectively part of the team (for now). I’m betting that Dean went along with them conversationally as well. (The old Survivor adage: “as long as it’s not me”). I’m pretty sure Tom thought the vote was locked for Karishma so he didn’t try. It’s easy to understand why Karishma had no loyalty toward Tom or Dean. Still, agreeing to go along with the majority is not exactly a bold move - nor is simply taking for granted that one of three people will automatically be screwed because of an unlucky buff draw. I like to see more creative thinking than that. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/108 "2019-10-26T14:49:58Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Honestly, losing out might not be the worst strategy. The other tribe is 4-4, and they don’t know what’s going on over there. If they win, the other tribe might end up knocking out a bunch of old Vokai. If they lose the next two, getting rid of the old Lairo, it would be a better post-merge situation. That would be the strategy if they knew they were merging when there are 13 left. But if they merge at 12, and they lose out, then they have to vote one of their own out. Which in this case, would probably be Noura, or someone strong and like-able, like surfer Dude Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/109 "2019-10-26T20:22:00Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > I like to see more creative thinking than that. Sure, you would for entertainment value (me too) but Karishma And Dean have a real world shot at a million dollars. Potentially pissing people off trying to divide them or stirring the pot and drawing attention to yourself in that situation is the more risky strategy vs flipping. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/110 "2019-10-27T17:55:54Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > That would be the strategy if they knew they were merging when there are 13 left. > > But if they merge at 12, and they lose out, then they have to vote one of their own out. Which in this case, would probably be Noura, or someone strong and like-able, like surfer Dude Jack. Sure, but neither of those two have been presented as bright enough to figure that out (or as the primary decision-makers, to be honest). The folks making the decisions for old Vokai (seemingly Kellee and Jamal) hopefully did some math and figured out that 8-4 at the merge isn’t that bad for them, and likely are holding out those two (or at least Noura) as a possible “easy” boot if they do end up losing the next three. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/111 "2019-10-31T04:20:01Z")
Isn’t it spelled “do-rag”? As in hairdo? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/112 "2019-10-31T12:25:30Z")
That’s what I thought too. It took me a minute to figure it out, since I didn’t hear him well the first time. Googling indicates both spellings are in use, though “do-rag” is the original spelling. And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term. With that out of the way - I can’t believe how upset the 4 Vokai were when Elaine pulled out the Vote Block. To the point of physical pain. Seriously, they were saying things like “I’ve never been so frightened in my entire life.” If they can’t handle a surprise or two, they’re not going to go as far as they think. Secondly, there’s nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they’re conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent _because they want to win the game too_ just pisses me off. Goddamn crybabies is all they are - my kids got over that kind of bullshit before they were 10. ---
**Author:** ![Noelq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noelq/32/16438_2.png) [@Noelq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noelq)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/113 "2019-10-31T15:26:45Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That’s what I thought too. It took me a minute to figure it out, since I didn’t hear him well the first time. Googling indicates both spellings are in use, though “do-rag” is the original spelling. > > And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term… I, too, thought it was do-rag. As in, a rag, that you do things with. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/114 "2019-10-31T16:40:35Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Secondly, there’s nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they’re conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent _because they want to win the game too_ just pisses me off. Goddamn crybabies is all they are - my kids got over that kind of bullshit before they were 10. This is definitely annoying. It’s somewhat understandable to have a strong reaction if you are backstabbed by a close ally, but expecting your enemies to just roll over and get voted out for your benefit is silly. It seems to happen more often with tribes that win a lot of challenges and rarely need to go to Tribal. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/115 "2019-10-31T18:40:56Z")
> [@Noelq](#): > > I, too, thought it was do-rag. As in, a rag, that you do things with. Or, a rag for your hair-do. Far be it for me to claim expertise in such matters, but my take was not necessarily that the term itself is considered racist, but that specifically calling the black man’s buff a “do-rag” was tone deaf at best. And Jack was wise enough to own that right away. And Jamal was wise enough to see an opportunity for learning and growth. Too often (in real life as well as in the game) people simply lock into “I’m offended” mode and can’t move on. This seemed like a genuine human moment, and I liked it. This whole episode was enjoyable. Elaine is a riot, and I hope she goes far. It’s always fun to see players who go into Tribal way too cocky get knocked down a peg or two. While I concur with **muldoonthief** that their reactions were a bit over-the-top, that just made it even more sweet for me. Aaron, for all his smugness about being “in control,” did nothing but screw himself. When you promise your vote to two different factions, you’re guaranteed to piss _somebody_ off. That may be part of the game, but he managed to do it all so clumsily that he pissed _everybody_ off. I think this is shaping up to be a really fun season, and we’re not even at the merge yet. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/116 "2019-11-01T01:05:50Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term. It’s not, in and of itself, but Jack was either 1) accidentally calling Jamal’s buff a do-rag, or 2) purposely making a joke calling his buff a do-rag. Either way is arguably bad because it’s not a do-rag, it’s a buff, and calling it a do-rag because Jamal is black (either subconciously or as a bad joke) is problematic. I certainly don’t think Jack meant anything negative from it, but I can see why it would affect Jamal. I gotta admit the vote surprised me, I didn’t think Aaron would directly state to Tommy’s face that the plan was still going forward. That could definitely come back to bite him… I don’t see anyone trusting him for the long haul. (He’s also a target because of his physicality). ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/117 "2019-11-01T16:20:30Z")
According to Jason’s exit interview with Rob has a podcast, his alliance (jason-Laurel-Dan-Tommy) was actually going to vote for Aaron at the Tribal Council with Aaron (and maybe Missy) voting Elaine. The vote switched after Elaine announced the Vote Block advantage. They were suspicious of Aaron and Missy flipping so early, that they could be double agents. I thought it was spelled “doo-rag”, and never considered it racist. When I worked in manufacturing plant which required hardhats, I wore a “du-rag” under the hardhat, to absorb the perspiration and I am about as pasty-white as you can get. I wonder if the Producers are intentionally casting players with similar names In David vs Goliath, there was Natalie and Natalia In Edge of Extinction, there was a Julia and Julie and this season, there is a Tom and a Tommy ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/118 "2019-11-01T16:27:54Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > Aaron, for all his smugness about being “in control,” did nothing but screw himself. When you promise your vote to two different factions, you’re guaranteed to piss _somebody_ off. That may be part of the game, but he managed to do it all so clumsily that he pissed _everybody_ off. Exactly. I get why he wanted to keep his options open, but keep them open until the point you make a decision. If your not going to flip then just tell the other group that you’re willing to go to rocks (knowing, of course, that won’t happen due to Elaine’s advantage). I actually think that either approach has it’s pros and cons for Aaron, and I’m not sure which one is definitively better. I doubt he really wants a final four with Elaine, Elizabeth and Missy. And I could see why he thinks he needs guys like Tommy around to take the target off him post-merge. And again it’s now 8 Vokai to 6 Lairo (original tribes). With the breakdown on each tribe being 4-3 Lairo on new Vokai and 5-2 Vokai on new Lairo. So if you want to have an advantage for your original tribe at the merge it’s now better for the majority in each new tribe to lose the next few immunity challenges… particularly for new Vokai where the newly formed 4-3 Lairo majority could really benefit from knocking out some original Vokai while saving Dean and Karishma from certain doom. On preview - I like the original plan of targeting Aaron. It’s just really really bad timing (from Jason’s group’s perspective) to have that particular advantage in a 4-4 tie situation. An immunity idol would be way better to try to play around. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/119 "2019-11-02T19:11:24Z")
As I reported on the Death Pool thread [Rudy Boesch](https://people.com/tv/survivor-contestant-rudy-boesch-dies/), Navy Seal and contestant on the First US Survivor TV show, has died at age 91. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437/120 "2019-11-03T15:01:32Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Secondly, there’s nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they’re conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent _because they want to win the game too_ just pisses me off. Preach it, brother! My number on gripe during a season. It always comes across as, “who do they think they are trying to vote out me, the deserving eventual winner?” > [@](#): > > Goddamn crybabies is all they are. You misspelled entitled assholes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-39-island-of-the-idols-debuts-9-25-19/840437.md?page=7)