# Survivor 5/9 - Finale and Reunion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 8, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171 "2004-05-08T12:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/101 "2004-05-11T12:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Disappointingly to me, a a lot of people here seem justify some of the more blatant actions on Survivor because it is just a “GAME”, with no tie-back into everyday reality. Lying, cheating and back-stabbing are OK here, again because Survivor is just a “GAME”. Oh please. You think Rupert goes around stealing people’s gym shoes in real life? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/102 "2004-05-11T12:41:42Z")
I don’t know, I _am_ missing a pair … ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/103 "2004-05-11T14:52:58Z")
I think I finally realized this season that there are two types of Survivor players. There are the Shii Anns, Boston Robs, and Hatches of the world that are there to play a game and will do whatever it takes to win, and if they lose, oh well, they’ve been bamboozled. Good play. Then there are the Lexes, Toms, and Alicias, who think that the game reflects life and if you break your word in the game, you’re scum. If it were me, I’d be in the first group. I play a lot of games. (no really, more than that, a lot) and I’m used to getting stabbed in the back repeatedly by my closest friends, and doing the same back to them. But the trick to winning the jury vote is judging who falls into which group and betraying only the people who can take it. You’re not going to change anyones mind by yelling “it’s only a game” or “but I trusted you” at them. Survivor is a game of reading other people and figuring out how to use them. Reading this aspect of the people is as important as any other. ---
**Author:** ![mbacko1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@mbacko1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbacko1)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/104 "2004-05-11T15:33:43Z")
> [@iamme99](#): > > Over the first few seasons of Survivor, there were a number of articles of the opinion that the show was successful because it was a reflection on how life and office politics worked, only transferred to some tropical outdoor location. > > For instance, here’s an article that came out on the original show: > > Disappointingly to me, a a lot of people here seem justify some of the more blatant actions on Survivor because it is just a “GAME”, with no tie-back into everyday reality. Lying, cheating and back-stabbing are OK here, again because Survivor is just a “GAME”. But I think the beauty of a show like Survivor, that puts a group of people together for 39 days in difficult and trying circumstances, is that you can’t separate this game from real life. The personalities of the players and how they act with others on Survivor are a window into who these people are and how they act in real life, outside of the game. And I’m of the opinion that this statement also applies to people’s reactions as posted here. > > If someone makes a commitment or promise, most people expect them to back the commitment, regardless of the cost to them. Empty promises are worthless. I wonder if those posting their admiration for Rob’s “play” would feel the same way were they the one that got “played”? Since it is highly unlikely that anyone here will ever be on Survivor, let’s say this happened in the office where you work. Do you shake the hand that cost you the promotion or even your job and say “good game”? Do you go home to the SO and say - “I worked hard and played fair, but the other person lied and manipulated everyone else. I trusted him/her to stand by the word he gave me but I wound up feeling and looking like the fool. I lost but the better person won”. I doubt it. > > When we say lying, breaking commitments, manipulating and back-stabbing others is OK on TV, then I fear that many are giving these things their stamp of approval for life in general. And perhaps that explains why we sit by and watch our society decay, why our president and administration doesn’t feel uncomfortable about lying (or would that be misdirection? :)) to the public, why so many corporate executives think it is OK to cheat the shareholders and owners, why some feel that shareholders should pay for $6,000 shower curtains, why big mutual fund traders think (illegal) late-trading doesn’t apply to them, etc., etc. It’s all just part of the GAME of life to them… I’m sorry, but Survivor is only a game. Only 1 person gets the big money. In an office everyone is getting paid and everyone has a role that they are supposed to fill. Working together with your fellow employees can increase the success of the company. But usually there is more than one winner. In Survivor the mantra is outlast, outwit, and outplay. It says nothing about morals. The concept is to make it to the end and eliminate others who have to vote you the money. Mike ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/105 "2004-05-11T17:13:33Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I think I finally realized this season that there are two types of Survivor players. > > There are the Shii Anns, Boston Robs, and Hatches of the world that are there to play a game and will do whatever it takes to win, and if they lose, oh well, they’ve been bamboozled. Good play. > > Then there are the Lexes, Toms, and Alicias, who think that the game reflects life and if you break your word in the game, you’re scum. > > … Reading this aspect of the people is as important as any other. I think you’re quite right! ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/106 "2004-05-11T18:39:21Z")
> [@iamme99](#): > > Over the first few seasons of Survivor, there were a number of articles of the opinion that the show was successful because it was a reflection on how life and office politics worked, only transferred to some tropical outdoor location. That hardly makes _Survivor_ unique. People write articles that compare different games to real life all the time. (Baseball has been especially prone to mythologizing.) It’s at best an interesting metaphorical point, but it doesn’t prove something innate about the game itself. > [@](#): > > Disappointingly to me, a a lot of people here seem justify some of the more blatant actions on Survivor because it is just a “GAME”, with no tie-back into everyday reality. Lying, cheating and back-stabbing are OK here, again because Survivor is just a “GAME”. Lying and backstabbing are OK because they are a necessary component of winning the game. Cheating is not okay in _Survivor_ or any other game because, by definition, cheating is breaking the rules of that game. If an action is not against the rules of the game, it’s not cheating. And if _Survivor_ isn’t ultimately a game, why is there a $1,000,000 prize at the end of it? It may not be “just” a game, but not many games are. They all offer opportunities to learn and try things that you couldn’t or shouldn’t do in “real life.” They offer unique stresses. _Survivor_’s happen to be exceptionally intense because of the setting and time committed to playing. > [@](#): > > When we say lying, breaking commitments, manipulating and back-stabbing others is OK on TV, then I fear that many are giving these things their stamp of approval for life in general. Lying, etc., are OK on _Survivor_ because they’re taking place within a game that accepts them as part of its rule system, not because they’re on TV. Lying is OK in poker, it’s OK in Diplomacy, it’s OK in any game or sport that allows you to bluff or feint or otherwise mislead your opponents to gain an advantage. That doesn’t mean there’s no price to be paid for lying – I think Rob probably deserved to lose this round of _Survivor_ because for all his strategic skill, he was exceptionally poor at interpersonal relations, which are _also_ part of _Survivor_. But that price is paid within the context of the game. I certainly understand people like Lex being upset because they were lied to, but as 7 previous seasons of the show demonstrated, lying is not against _Survivor_ rules and it is part of the game. Trying to win _Survivor_ without lying because it goes against your values seems to me on par with trying to win a game of football without tackling anybody because you don’t believe in violence. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/107 "2004-05-11T22:39:13Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Oh please. You think Rupert goes around stealing people’s gym shoes in real life? What I said was “The personalities of the players and how they act with others on Survivor are a window into who these people are and how they act in real life, outside of the game”. I wasn’t pointing to any particular examples. And no I don’t feel that Rupert is a shoe thief in real life. This was on the level of a prank, as far as I am concerned. OTOH, I do feel that Rob’s consistent ease at lying and backstabbling points to a likelihood of him being a liar and not to be trusted in real life. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/108 "2004-05-11T23:15:19Z")
> [@Interrobang!?](#): > > That doesn’t mean there’s no price to be paid for lying – I think Rob probably deserved to lose this round of _Survivor_ because for all his strategic skill, he was exceptionally poor at interpersonal relations, which are _also_ part of _Survivor_. But that price is paid within the context of the game. > > I certainly understand people like Lex being upset because they were lied to, but as 7 previous seasons of the show demonstrated, lying is not against _Survivor_ rules and it is part of the game. > > Trying to win _Survivor_ without lying because it goes against your values seems to me on par with trying to win a game of football without tackling anybody because you don’t believe in violence. Perhaps we should distinguish between a blatant lie and what might more charitably be called a “white lie” or “misdirection”? Survivor is no different from everyday life. You can misdirect and you can lead someone to believe something while not having to break a direct commitment that you’ve made. Outright lying is too easy a strategy, if it could even be called that. Sort of akin to the saying that “violence is the last resort of the incompetent”. We are generally taught that when someone gives you his word and shakes your hand, that he is making a commitment that he will stand by. Society as we know it would fall apart if no one could be trusted. Is it wrong for others to believe in honoring your word? It’s clear that Rudy was an honorable person and I’d say in general, that Tom and Rupert were honorable also. Perhaps they were brought up that way by their parents and unlike some, find it difficult to switch on and off between lying and truth? ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/109 "2004-05-12T15:50:19Z")
I’m so happy that Ambuh won, because now those unfortunate people with “multiple dystrophy” will get some money. Feh. Is she an idiot or what? She obviously meant multiple sclerosis when she was talking about people in their 20s getting the disease too early. She looks and talks like a freaking Stepford Wife. I hate her. Can’t wait to see how long that marriage lasts. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/110 "2004-05-12T15:57:28Z")
> [@beckwall](#): > > I’m so happy that Ambuh won, because now those unfortunate people with “multiple dystrophy” will get some money. Feh. Is she an idiot or what? She obviously meant multiple sclerosis when she was talking about people in their 20s getting the disease too early. She looks and talks like a freaking Stepford Wife. I hate her. Can’t wait to see how long that marriage lasts. Let’s leave you on a deserted island for 39 days having to boil your own water and fish, and see how coherent you are. I also can’t wait to see how long that marriage lasts, as I wish them all the happiness in the world. Anything less, and I’d hate to look like a complete asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/111 "2004-05-12T16:01:42Z")
The disease is “muscular dystrophy”. Just like that [telethon](http://www.mdausa.org/telethon/) that Jerry Lewis has been hosting for, like, forever. :wally ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/112 "2004-05-12T16:08:50Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Let’s leave you on a deserted island for 39 days having to boil your own water and fish, and see how coherent you are. I also can’t wait to see how long that marriage lasts, as I wish them all the happiness in the world. Anything less, and I’d hate to look like a complete asshole. But that was months ago!! Surely she could have come to her senses in 5 or 6 months. Oh, wait, no. She did agree to marry the Rawbfather on national television, didn’t she? Perhaps you’re correct and improperly boiled water has affected her permanently. And I do believe she said “muscular dystrophy” (or a close garbled approximation) while meaning “multiple sclerosis.” I wonder which of those two fine charity-diseases will get the dough. And how much of that million. . . . . ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/113 "2004-05-12T16:34:17Z")
I fail to see how anyone is justified in judging Amber’s acceptance of Rob’s proposal based solely on what they’ve seen of these people on a \*television show \* edited by Mark Burnett. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/114 "2004-05-12T20:22:11Z")
Heh, Rob and Amber run the table winning everything of note against the supposedly best players there were and people still are vetching. They won. Rob got 2nd, most of the individual challenges, dominating many of the team challenges, called the shots for long stretches of the game and got the truck too. Add in the fact he got the girl with the million bucks makes it all the better. The American Idol ripoff thing is a bit cheesy, but seeing Rupert is a shoe-in for the money I guess I can live with it as, like Rob, he earned it. Lexx and Big Tom acted like complete morons. Alicia proved all the players right in voting her being least deserving player. ---
**Author:** ![YWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/6f9a4e/32.png) [@YWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWalker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/115 "2004-05-12T20:29:00Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > The disease is “muscular dystrophy”. Just like that [telethon](http://www.mdausa.org/telethon/) that Jerry Lewis has been hosting for, like, forever. > > :wally Well, that’s the problem with trying to translate Ambuh. There’s a disease called muscular dystrophy, and one called multiple sclerosis. Since Amber mentioned (IIRC) that it affected adults, it is far more likely that she meant multiple sclerosis. Muscular dystrophy is more of disease which begins in childhood. I took it as a sign that she could be seriously BS’ing about making a donation to help fight the disease since she couldn’t even get the name right. Was it due brain freeze, exhaustion from the 39 days, or that she was making up a warm and fuzzy “honorable” use of the money. (When she got throught tasting it, I guess.) ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/116 "2004-05-12T20:42:49Z")
Munch, the reunion show was broadcast live, so I don’t see how Burnett could have edited her acceptance of Rob’s proposal. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/117 "2004-05-12T20:46:26Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Munch, the reunion show was broadcast live, so I don’t see how Burnett could have edited her acceptance of Rob’s proposal. Yes, but her entire on-screen persona has been crafted by Burnett’s editing. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/118 "2004-05-12T21:56:33Z")
I wonder will we see a Mark Burnett produced special: Survivor: The Wedding!? I doubt Lex will be invited. ---
**Author:** ![beckwall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@beckwall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beckwall)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/119 "2004-05-12T22:19:31Z")
> [@YWalker](#): > > Well, that’s the problem with trying to translate Ambuh. > > There’s a disease called muscular dystrophy, and one called multiple sclerosis. Since Amber mentioned (IIRC) that it affected adults, it is far more likely that she meant multiple sclerosis. Muscular dystrophy is more of disease which begins in childhood. > > I took it as a sign that she could be seriously BS’ing about making a donation to help fight the disease since she couldn’t even get the name right. Was it due brain freeze, exhaustion from the 39 days, or that she was making up a warm and fuzzy “honorable” use of the money. (When she got throught tasting it, I guess.) Thank you, **YWalker**. That’s exactly the point I was trying to make. Most people know that muscular dystrophy is a childhood disease, but she seemed to be talking about a disease that shouldn’t be occuring until age 40 or 5-ish, which would most definitely be MS. Some people just look like morons regardless of what they say or do. ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171/120 "2004-05-12T22:50:09Z")
Tim Goodman, the SF Chronicle TV columnist has some good observations on the show: > [@](#): > > **’Survivor’ free-for-all a grisly delight** > > Tim Goodman > Wednesday, May 12, 2004 > San Francisco Chronicle > > The true test of any reality television series is how quickly and passionately it gets people talking. After nine versions of “Survivor,” you have to give credit to a franchise that can still make people turn the proverbial water cooler into a Slip N’ Slide of feverish day-after recapping. > > Sunday’s three-hour finale – two for the show, one for the “reunion” - - is still providing fodder, mostly because the backstabbing love couple of “Survivor: All Stars” went out and made it official, live on television. “Boston Rob” Mariano got down on one knee and proposed to Amber Brkich, the coattail-riding beauty who won the $1 million grand prize essentially by being less villainous than her new fiance. > > As reality show recaps go, this was off-the-charts fun. Though “Boston Rob” still had an outside shot of winning – even if people hate you, on “Survivor” they sometimes admire one’s ability to stick a shiv in a multitude of people and live to see the finale. But he lost, 4-3, and even though his proposal came before the final vote tally, cynical minds already guessed that he proposed to bunnyesque Amber in his last great bit of Machiavellian intrigue simply to ensure he gets half of her winnings. > > Beautiful. They deserve each other. > > [Full column](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/12/DDGU16J48L1.DTL) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-5-9-finale-and-reunion/244171.md?page=7)