# Survivor 9/25 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717 "2003-09-25T11:48:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/41 "2003-09-26T13:33:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rainbowthief \* > \*\*Oh, another thing, did anyone else catch Scout Lady saying “this troop” instead of “this tribe” when Jeff asked her to grade them at tribal council? The woman needs help! \*\* Nah. You get so used to work terminology sometimes that it slips into your regular speech. I work in a museum. The other day, Hubby and I were in an antiques store, and I kept calling everything “artifacts.” Troop, tribe . . . it’d be easy to get those two mixed up if you’re used to saying the former. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/42 "2003-09-26T13:34:52Z")
Is it editing or is Morgan a lost cause? They have no food, no decent shelter, their moral is toast and they are clueless? Like **Johnny L.A.** , said, that was freaking awesome how Hagrid found that spear head. I couldn’t find a nut that fell off my lawn mower in a 9 sq ft area in my yard last week! **Where’s the PANDA, damnit?!** ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/43 "2003-09-26T13:40:12Z")
The attitude that Sandra got from the Morgan tribe was amazing. If I went in there with good intentions (as Sandra seemed to have done), then their 'tude would piss me off. She was more gentle to their hut then I would have been. Of course, I think Sandra ran her mouth a little too much. You don’t ask how they are doing and you don’t comment on how much better your camp is. I agree that Drake should bury the tarps and the spear gun before every challenge now. ---
**Author:** ![Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horrifying_Howler_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/44 "2003-09-26T14:37:37Z")
Drake does seem lost, I am wondering though if they are going to maybe start trading members or something like they did last season (I can’t remember how far in they were when that happened). If not, they are looking pretty bad; I don’t see them winning challenges anytime soon. Along those lines, did Jeff say Sandra could take anything from the other camp? Pirates kidnap, I think maybe she should have tried taking one of their stronger teammates. One with pants though. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/45 "2003-09-26T14:43:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anonymous Coward \* > \*\*The attitude that Sandra got from the Morgan tribe was amazing. If I went in there with good intentions (as Sandra seemed to have done), then their 'tude would piss me off. She was more gentle to their hut then I would have been. > > Of course, I think Sandra ran her mouth a little too much. You don’t ask how they are doing and you don’t comment on how much better your camp is. > > I agree that Drake should bury the tarps and the spear gun before every challenge now. \*\* Yeah, as soon as the cameras wondered off, I would hide the spear gun and the water jug, **but** leave their tarp right out in the open. Let them take it back, you really don’t need it anyway. The speargun and water jug are the keys. BTW- the spear gun could have been adapted without the prongs, not as effective, but it could have been done. That said- that was a great find. I predict- Survivor puzzle-time hell is about to start if Morgan keeps losing. No sleep, not much food, poor water supplies, their strongest member physically (non-swimming 😉 ) is a gutless quitter, they lost their tarp. As time goes on- the food imbalance will start to tell on them. I would like to see Burnett allow a team to get crushed without pulling all of the hard challenges. Still, Drake needs to go once or twice to TC to thin out some loud-mouthed deadwood. Go Drake! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/46 "2003-09-26T14:43:50Z")
Magayuk, I think you meant team Morgan ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/47 "2003-09-26T14:57:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slacker \* > \*\*I think they’ve edited around Darrah so far because they want to have a least one person who seems likeable on Morgan. She’s plenty cute, but from what little we’ve heard of her and the world’s thickest accent, she doesn’t seem very nice. Better to be seen and not heard. \*\* Darrah has earned a minor piece of immortality, in introducing the adjective “snatchy” to the English vocabulary. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/48 "2003-09-26T15:08:47Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m getting pretty sick of the Hopeless Black Man thing not just in Survivor but in RTV generally. By now, it seems that this whole business is deliberate. The potential contestants are put through excrutiating psychological evaluations, and there ought to be a better batting average than we’re seeing. Osten has the character of a spoiled sissy brat. It’s unfortunate that someone who tested higher was denied an opportunity to compete. It’s a theme that I’m tired of seeing repeated over and over: lazy/arrogant/thieving Black Man creates drama by whining/insulting/stealing. Damn. Just plain damn. Someone over on TWoP had some seriously nasty and caustic comments about this, too, and it really got me thinking. Other than Ted, who was dumb enough to get involved in Ghandiagate but otherwise seemed to be at least a semi-decent guy, have there been any decent black male contestants on Survivor? It does seem like casting is done for major buffoonery more often than not. And it’s not like there aren’t lots of strong, capable, intelligent, canny black men – or older women, who also aren’t cast well although they’ve managed to rise above it a time or two – who they COULD choose. I guess they care more about cartoon characters (LOVE this one! HATE that one!) than finding real people to make the whole thing more interesting. But they’re really angering a whole chunk of their demographic. (Unless they’re really targeting male-chauvinist white supremacists? Which wouldn’t surprise me; NOTHING Hollywood does in the name of ratings surprises me!) Which is also why Amazing Race won the Emmy. Yo, Hollywood, get a clue – see what happens when you have REAL people on a reality show? ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/49 "2003-09-26T15:15:30Z")
Well, I was going to post some fascinating insight into last night’s episode, but just about everything has been said. So, I’ll repeat stuff… I agree that Sandra got a bad attitude from Morgan. With that being said, I still say that she should have just taken a token item from them. If and when Morgan wins a RC, they will make Drake hurt because of that move. Of course, it depends on who they send over to pillage. Definitely hide the spear and the water jugs. Yeah, the preview with Dread Pirate Hagrid was a typical Survivor blow-something-out-of-proportion tactic. He really wasn’t even yelling at Shawn, he was just upset. I didn’t like how he kept referring to the spear as his, though. It was cool that he found the spear head. Lady Baggins kept saying, “What’s he doing? He’ll never find it.” I said “Anybody else wouldn’t find it. _Hagrid_ will find it. He wants it that bad.” The grid pattern was standard smart. (Yes, we call him Dread Pirate Hagrid in regular conversation) Christa calling Shawn a puss was classic. I like her more than I thought I would at first. Still… that voice. ::shudders:: Reminds me of an ex-g/f. ::shudders again:: Morgan really needs to pull together or they are going to fall apart (more). Sleep deprivation would probably be the biggest thing they need to worry about. No sleep can make you freakin’ loopy. I’m surprised they’re not at each others throats already. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/50 "2003-09-26T15:33:55Z")
When Probst asked them what they thought was bringing the team down, I was jumping up and down, yelling at the TV. Guys. C’mon. It’s not the lack of fishing, the skinny guy or the hypochondriac. It’s the so-called “leader” who seems intent on busting up his team before he’s even got one. You don’t lead by referring to a team-member as a “limp noodle” and immediately pointing to him as the cause of all your problems. You don’t lead by ensuring that two people in your tribe are automatically relegated to the outsider’s position. You don’t lead by sitting there and pouting while someone steals your tarp. And you certainly don’t lead by blaming on your troubles on lack of sleep and water. Dude. You’re the leader? Find a way to get sleep and water instead of sitting there whining about it. If Andrew wanted to backstab, snipe, whine and generally act the arrogant high-school jock, he shoulda turned down the leader position. If he wants his team to succeed insteada just give him another chance to baby on about how weak Ryan is, he’s got to get them to work together and live together. He’s a friggin’ know-nothing chucklehead who’s got no clue how to get a team together and the sooner someone smacks him upside the head with a clue-stick, the sooner he’ll actually have a team to lead. Yutz. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/51 "2003-09-26T16:07:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > > \*\* It’s a theme that I’m tired of seeing repeated over and over: lazy/arrogant/thieving Black Man creates drama by whining/insulting/stealing. Damn. Just plain damn. \*\* Gee, I dunno, **Lib** , I think I could modify that sentence only slightly and have it remain 100% accurate… lazy/arrogant/thieving White Man creates drama by whining/insulting/stealing. Damn. Just plain damn. lazy/arrogant/thieving Black Woman creates drama by whining/insulting/stealing. Damn. Just plain damn. lazy/arrogant/thieving White Woman creates drama by whining/insulting/stealing. Damn. Just plain damn. That’s the Survivor _model_! What the heck has the skin color of the lazy/arrogant/thieving/whining/insulting/stealing contestant got to do with it? **Aguecheek** , I think the bottom line is that Andrew is scared to death of being the next “Hunter”. If you didn’t see that season, let me know and I’ll explain. I LOVED last night’s episode! Dread Pirate Hagrid is the BEST! I loved that he got angry about the spear, but handled it with a bit of calm and class. I loved that he took action and his determination paid off. I loved how smart he was to point out that they didn’t _need_ to hurt the other team. This is going to be a fun season. ---
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/52 "2003-09-26T19:52:24Z")
Osten may be the wussiest player in the history of Survivor. BUT, let’s not forget that Jenna was in sad shape and was asking to be voted out of Amazon at one point. Someone else got the boot, and she went on to win. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/53 "2003-09-26T20:03:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yawndave \* > \*\*Osten may be the wussiest player in the history of Survivor. BUT, let’s not forget that Jenna was in sad shape and was asking to be voted out of Amazon at one point. Someone else got the boot, and she went on to win. \*\* But remember what happened last season to someone who asked to be booted and whined about it. They were kept as long as needed, then kicked to the curb. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/54 "2003-09-26T20:55:36Z")
Shayna > [@](#): > > That’s the Survivor model! What the heck has the skin color of the lazy/arrogant/thieving/whining/insulting/stealing contestant got to do with it? It’s called “bigotry”. When you typecast people of color as lazy/arrogant/thieving, you’re a bigot. I can name you a whole bunch of white men, black women, and white women who were not l/a/t on Survivor (or Real World, etc, for that matter). But how many black men have not been a jackass of some sort or another? My point is that it is NOT the case that black men generally are that way. Therefore, the disparity between the general population and the RTV sampling seems suspiciously deliberate. It wouldn’t likely happen by chance. ---
**Author:** ![Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Horrifying\_Howler\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horrifying_Howler_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/55 "2003-09-26T20:56:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duderdude2 \* > \*\*Magayuk, I think you meant team Morgan \*\* Yes, you are right. Oops 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/56 "2003-09-26T21:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Shayna > > It’s called “bigotry”. When you typecast people of color as lazy/arrogant/thieving, you’re a bigot. I can name you a whole bunch of white men, black women, and white women who were not l/a/t on Survivor (or Real World, etc, for that matter). But how many black men have not been a jackass of some sort or another? My point is that it is NOT the case that black men generally are that way. Therefore, the disparity between the general population and the RTV sampling seems suspiciously deliberate. It wouldn’t likely happen by chance. \*\* And I think that’s utter crap. Jeff Probst has said over and over and OVER again that the contestants ALWAYS surprise him. He thinks certain people will behave a certain way and it’s never what he expects. So what makes you think he’s a liar? Because that’s exactly what you’re implying when you say that he’s type-casting black men in a bigotted way in order to show them as lazy, arrogant and theiving. The ONLY reason you can name more white men and women who weren’t lazy, arrogant and theiving is because there have been more OF them. I didn’t watch Survivor 1, so skipping ahead to Survivor 2 we have [Nick](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor2/survivors/nick_b.html), whose biography reads: > [@](#): > > Nick Brown is entering his second year at Harvard Law School and hopes to join the Army’s Judge Advocate General’s office upon graduation. While attending Morehouse College in Atlanta, he was a member of the R.O.T.C. and is currently an officer in the United States Army. > > He spent this past summer as a student associate at a leading San Francisco law firm and has also worked in Olympia, Washington at the Attorney General’s office. In addition, Brown was a research assistant for the Human Rights Commission. When he is not attending law school or clerking, Brown lives in Steilacoom, Washington, and has previously resided in San Francisco, Atlanta and Ausburg, Germany. > > Brown describes himself as compassionate, incisive, and ambitious. In addition to his position with the United States Army, he a member of the Black Law Students Association and has modeled in the past. Please tell me how he was type-cast as a lazy, arrogant thief. Season 3 we had [Clarence](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor3/survivors/bios/clarence.shtml) > [@](#): > > Born and raised in Detroit, Michigan by his mother Mae, Clarence Black is currently a high school basketball coach. He attended Bridgton Academy in North Bridgton, Maine. Black earned a college basketball scholarship and graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Classical Studies at Hillsdale College in Michigan. > > While at Hillsdale, Black played basketball and founded the Tod Phister Memorial Basketball Tournament, which raises money to support cancer research in honor of a fellow teammate who passed away. After graduating, he worked as a stockbroker and financial planner, but decided the profession wasn’t for him. > > Clarence Black is a member of the Detroit County Alumni Council and a member of the Board of Directors for Wise Steward Ministries Youth Education Program. He describes himself as competitive, loyal and silly. Yup. Looks type-cast to me. (Not) Season 4 brought us [Sean](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor4/survivors/bios/sean.shtml): > [@](#): > > Sean Rector was born and raised in Harlem, New York. He attended boarding school at Milton S. Hershey School in Hershey, Pennsylvania, before moving to Albany to obtain his Bachelor of Arts degree in theater and psychology from the State University of New York. > > Rector currently works as a junior high teacher in South Central Los Angeles. He is also the school’s head basketball coach and works with the school’s drama club. Previously, he has worked as a specialist for a homeless shelter, a clerk on the stock exchange and a school counselor. His favorite hobbies are basketball and reading. > > Although his mother and inspiration, LaVerne, remains a writer in Harlem, Sean Rector currently resides in Los Angeles, Calif. Yes, I can see it now. He was born in Harlem, so he _must_ be a scheming, lying, thieving, lazy thug. Nevermind that he’s worked for a homeless shelter, as a school counselor and is a junior high school teacher. He black, he bad. Right. I don’t think they _came_ any more lazy and arrogant than [Rob Mariano](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor4/survivors/bios/rob.shtml) that season! I don’t recall [Ted](http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor5/survivors/bios/ted.shtml) from season 5 being lazy at all. I recall him being screwed over by that bitch, Ghandia. Nor do I see any reason to believe that he was type-cast as an angry, lazy, arrogant black man, given his bio, either. And we didn’t have a black man “represented” last season. Also, as someone previously mentioned, this whole “vote me out, I’m feeling sick” could very well have been a PLOT by him and the rest of the tribe could’ve been totally in on it. For all we know it was a brilliant move on their part to throw Ryan off guard and weed out Lil’s loyalty to the team. I think you’re looking for something that’s just not there. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/57 "2003-09-27T01:03:27Z")
Well done **Shayna** , that was a wonderful marshalling and application of the facts. If anything it appears that the producers are being very careful in their casting decisions. Remind me to bring my A game if I am going to debate you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![annieclaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@annieclaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annieclaus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/58 "2003-09-27T01:34:28Z")
The Morgan team reminds me pretty much of the Green Bay Packers. . . able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory! That being the case, they deserve all the bad stuff they get! ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/59 "2003-09-27T13:56:15Z")
I do not understand why the Morgans don’t move their shelter into the forest a bit. Anyone who has been to the beach knows that the windiest, and coldest, places are right on the beach. You move inland past the high tide mark and it becomes much calmer. Plus the trees provide shade and protection from the sun, wind and rain. Not only would I move inland a bit, but I’d assemble a decent floor, complete with sand and palm fronds in between the wood planks to provide cushion. Most importantly, I would have taken the tarp down and used it as a group blanket. Plastic is amazingly insulating when you use it as a blanket and everyone’s body heat would have made a much more comfortable night’s sleep than trying to sleep on the windy, cold beach. It’s also protection against the mosquitoes, which are most active at night. I agree that Sondra should have taken a token item. Politically she screwed herself over a tarp. You want to beat your opponent, but you never want to humiliate them because the worst thing is to have an angry, MOTIVATED enemy. Glad Rupert found that spear. Those Drakians may not realize how much stronger they are than the Morgans but having food in your belly is a great advantage. I almost suspect that whatshisname lost the spear on purpose so that Rupert wouldn’t be an essential player. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/60 "2003-09-27T14:06:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d assemble a decent floor, complete with sand and palm fronds in between the wood planks to provide cushion. I was thinking the same thing. The floor would be made from poles, as they have done. Then a layer of palm fronds to keep the sand from falling through the cracks. I would weave mats from palm fronds to put over the sand. (I remember when I was a little kid, weaving mats from construction paper for “art time” in school.) As for Drake, I’d fashion a spear from local materials for use as a backup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717.md?page=4)