# Survivor 9/25 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717 "2003-09-25T11:48:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/81 "2003-09-29T17:43:32Z")
I’ve also read post-show interviews in which players say things were different then they appeared on the show. But even if it is true that everyone on the show has been portrayed in character, this doesn’t let Burnett off the hook. As I have pointed out, he picks who gets on the show after a careful review of their personalities. So if only offensive black people are appearing on _Survivor_, it’s because Burnett wants it that way. And can someone explain what it was that Skinny Ryan said when he picked up the mail? Apparently I missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/82 "2003-09-29T20:33:56Z")
[http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html](http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html) Ryan substituted **tree mail** for **e-mail**. Man, I’ve gotta get a life! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/83 "2003-09-29T20:51:58Z")
Minty > [@](#): > > How, then, do you explain all those post-boot interviews in which teh contestants confirm that the portraits of their fellow players correspond relatively well with the actual persons? Ryan S., for instance, has confirmed that Osten really was a big time whiner. Maybe part of that is sour grapes since he just got booted, but it’s certainly not made up out of whole cloth. I don’t think anyone has said that these caricatures are made up out of whole cloth. And why does Ryan S.'s opinion constitute confirmation? Maybe Ryan S. just doesn’t like Osten. Maybe it’s like December talking about Bill Clinton. But then again, maybe Osten is a loser, but that only raises the question again: why do so many reality shows — with their battery of psychological testing and review — pick so many black men who are losers? > [@](#): > > In Africa, Clarence was not shown to be lazy, but it was quite clear from his tribemates that they were pissed that he helped himself to the team’s food early in the game. And you can’t complain that that was editing–the guy really did take the extra beans and cherries. It wasn’t just Clarence, you know. Do you remember the white woman’s name who shared them with him? How many times have you heard her called a thief? > [@](#): > > In Marquesas, Sean was shown to be a lazy jerk. Post-boot interviews confirmed that he was a lazy jerk. For example, here’s David B’s recap of Hunter’s Early Show interview. I’d also refer you to this RNO article on Sean and race, which makes a strong argument that the guy was indeed a lazy jerk. That’s fine. I’ve already refered you to a whole bunch of articles. But you’re missing the point we’re making here. It isn’t remarkable that Sean is or isn’t a lazy jerk. Again, the point is that there is an overwhelming _preponderance_ of lazy/arrogant/thieving jerks on Survivor (and RTV generally) who happen to be black men. Listen carefully: since it is NOT the case that the overwhelming preponderance of black men in real life are lazy/arrogant/thieving jerks, there needs to be an accounting of why the black men on reality TV do not reflect anything close to the general population. > [@](#): > > Editing can emphasize a contestant’s character traits, or it can hide a character trait, but it can’t show something that isn’t there. Sure it can. Some of the cast members, for example, said that Sean was lazy. But NOT ALL of them did. Rob didn’t. Editing could have made Sean look like a hard worker simply by giving him the face time when he was working rather than when he was resting. Do you think he _never_ worked? Consider the BET article that I linked you to above. Do you think that black people are being hypersensitive and overreacting when they notice these bizarre statistics about black men on reality TV? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/84 "2003-09-29T20:58:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > I’ve also read post-show interviews in which players say things were different then they appeared on the show. Great, then find me a post-boot interview where someone said that Sean was not a lazy jerk. Good luck. > [@](#): > > But even if it is true that everyone on the show has been portrayed in character, this doesn’t let Burnett off the hook. As I have pointed out, he picks who gets on the show after a careful review of their personalities. So if only offensive black people are appearing on _Survivor_, it’s because Burnett wants it that way. Except, as others have pointed out, that’s not the case at all. Big Ted from S4 came off as a good guy. Vecepia didn’t deserve to win, but she certainly wasn’t shown to be actively offensive (except in her choice of alliance buddy). Joanna was annoying as all get-out with the Jesus stuff, but that had nothing to do with her race or any racial stereotypes. Nobody’s said anything bad about Tijuana, and even Osten may have just had one bad stretch when his body was giving out on him. Fact is, you’re talking about throwing 16 strangers into a high stress environment where they’re supposed to screw over everyone around them. It’s amazing anybody at all comes out looking like anything other than a complete jerk, no matter what their ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/85 "2003-09-29T21:03:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > I’ve also read post-show interviews in which players say things were different then they appeared on the show. Great, then find me a post-boot interview where someone said that Sean was not a lazy jerk. Good luck. > [@](#): > > But even if it is true that everyone on the show has been portrayed in character, this doesn’t let Burnett off the hook. As I have pointed out, he picks who gets on the show after a careful review of their personalities. So if only offensive black people are appearing on _Survivor_, it’s because Burnett wants it that way. Except, as others have pointed out, that’s not the case at all. Big Ted from S4 came off as a good guy. Vecepia didn’t deserve to win, but she certainly wasn’t shown to be actively offensive (except in her choice of alliance buddy). Joanna was annoying as all get-out with the Jesus stuff, but that had nothing to do with her race or any racial stereotypes. Nobody’s said anything bad about Tijuana, and even Osten may have just had one bad stretch when his body was giving out on him. Fact is, you’re talking about throwing 16 strangers into a high stress environment where they’re supposed to screw over everyone around them. It’s amazing anybody at all comes out looking like anything other than a complete jerk, no matter what their ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/86 "2003-09-30T00:44:05Z")
Lordy, the racists have powers beyond what I envisioned in my worst nightmare! They can tell which black man is gonna whine before they do it. Hey, come to think of it, I bet they have a thing against lawyers. I mean, look at Fearless Leader-- I bet they _knew_ what an ineffectual blowhard he would be. And old people. I bet they picked Boy Scout Woman just to show off how loony old people are. Damned racists! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/87 "2003-09-30T02:10:14Z")
I think it’s hard being the minority on one of these shows because you’re examined much more than the other players. And if you goof up–heaven forbid–your bad behavior is attributed to your race rather than you, as an individual. If Skinny Ryan had been black, we’d be wondering why they casted another _black_ lazy, goofball. None of the black characters have been exactly positive. Even Alicia got into the fight that time. However, I’m having a hard time thinking of any folks who have been positively portrayed. Ethan, maybe? Rodger? I dunno. Even Neleh had that evil side. I can see myself getting on this show with the intent goal of “representin’” and then doing something–like messing up a challenge (Ghandia) or getting sick (Ramona) or catching an attitude (Alicia)–and voila! I’m fulfilling a stereotype. The pressure to be perfect would be too much to bear. I guess I’m the only one who feels sorry for Osten. His near-nakedness can’t be easy. During the day he’s fine, but at night he has a disadvantage. He shouldn’t have sold all of his clothes. There was no need to do all that, and I can’t imagine what he was thinking. Dumb! Good looking guy, but dumb. And if I were him, I’d also be worrying about pneumonia. Perhaps that makes me a whiner too. ☹ I can’t bear to watch Morgan get slaughtered. I remember when that happened post-merge on Survivor I (or was it II?) and it got boring fast. Plus, misery isn’t that entertaining. I like the teenage counselor dude, but I don’t want his victory to come so easy. And I hope he doesn’t continue to dominate all the episodes. I don’t know any of the other players on his team except for Shawn and Sandra because his big mug is always in the camera. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/88 "2003-09-30T08:28:45Z")
stereotypes, hmm… jon the obnoxious joker rupert the hagrid andrew the clueless manager (did you hear the excuse he gave at the second TC? it takes six days of sleep depravation to convince him that it is high priority?!) nicole the dumb blonde osten the assertive i-know-everything manager (assuming the leadership role on the shopping spree without feedback from team members) ryan s the geek with brains without confidence ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/89 "2003-09-30T09:53:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*Lordy, the racists have powers beyond what I envisioned in my worst nightmare! > > They can tell which black man is gonna whine before they do it. Hey, come to think of it, I bet they have a thing against lawyers. I mean, look at Fearless Leader-- I bet they _knew_ what an ineffectual blowhard he would be. > > And old people. I bet they picked Boy Scout Woman just to show off how loony old people are. > > Damned racists! \*\* Oh. Sarcasm. That’s real convincing. You’re right. [There are no racists](http://www.stormfront.org/). And even if there were, the Amos ‘n’ Andy caricatures of reality TV [wouldn’t fuel their fires of hate](http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/temp/articles_illustrated/survivor_pearl/vw_survivor_pearl.html). We cannot expect a battery of [“stringent” psychological tests](http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article1256.art&page=1) administered by [psychology professionals](http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/34/1728_89719) to reveal anything useful. Most likely, studios pay for them just because they’re fun. Besides, other people are stereotyped as well. Jon the frat guy. Rupert the loveable doughboy. Ryan the beanpole. Those are vicious stereotypes that create ill-will for generations yet unborn. The extensive footage of black men as sexual predators, thieves, and ne’er-do-wells is merely a coincidence. And it’s harmless — no one is hurt by it. What were those hypersensitive writers at BET thinking? Thanks for setting me straight. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/90 "2003-09-30T12:37:28Z")
**Libertarian** , I share your frustration. And although I don’t think it’s merely a coincidence that a lot of black males get shafted on RTV, I also try my best to look at these people as individuals. I do not think Ted was cast or portrayed as a sexual predator. I think Ghandia created that situation herself, and the cameras had no choice but to capture it. Same with Sean being lazy. (Nick Brown was one of the people who I think was unfairly portrayed. His own teammates said he wasn’t nearly as slothful as he was shown on TV.) Also, I bet simply being a minority brings out certain behaviors that wouldn’t exist otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/91 "2003-09-30T12:47:19Z")
You have a point, Monstro — the cameras indeed have no choice. But the editors do — they choose which 0.5% they will show of what the cameras shoot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/92 "2003-10-02T03:04:17Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I’m having a hard time thinking of any folks who have been positively portrayed. Ethan, maybe? Rodger? I dunno. Even Neleh had that evil side. There have been a number of players that I feel have been generally seen positively. You mentioned Rodger Bingham and Ethan Zohn. I’d add Elisabeth Filarski, Michael Skupin, Jeff Varner, Colby Donaldson, Maralyn “Mad Dog” Hershey, Kelly Goldsmith, Kim Johnson, Carl Bilancione, Teresa Cooper, Kim Powers, Gina Crews, Hunter Ellis, Gabriel Cabe, Robert “The General” DeCanio, Paschal English, Tammy Leitner, Kathy Vavrick-O’Brien, Helen Glover, Tanya Vance, Jake Billingsley, Erin Collins, Ken Stafford, Alex Bell, Dave Johnson, Butch Lockley, and Christy Smith. I left off the first season which I didn’t personally watch and the current season. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/93 "2003-10-02T08:18:44Z")
The editors are gonna show what will get people watching and talking. If they displayed everyone as earnest and hard working no one would watch. I think they show every one to a disadvantage. Every stereotype imaginable is shown. I mean we all knew Rupert would steal shoes, wear a skirt, lose his temper and give himself a sunburn fishing for more food than they needed cause he is the quirky fat guy. that’s what quirky fat guys do. And please, how do you think the scout troop feels! Their leader couldn’t even remember to look at the map for water. Then we have the management type who didn’t remember to find out where they were going before he tried to hire a boat. And I am sure the air head women will soon be taking their clothes off to sway the game. Did you hear the mc say whan the guys took their clothes off that these were not the peopl anyone wanted to see naked. He didn’t say that last season when the two sticks and twigs strpped for peanut butter. Everyone here is portryaed as a caricature because that is what will get everyone watching. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717/94 "2003-10-02T15:28:48Z")
I guess you’re right, **Little Nemo**. I think I start finding all of them annoying by the end, but that has nothing to do with how they’re portrayed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-9-25/203717.md?page=4)