# Survivor Finale - 12/14 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964 "2003-12-14T17:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/61 "2003-12-15T16:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elf6c \* > \*\*Worst Survivor Season since the horrid “V” won. Way too many new gimmicks that backfired horribly. Probably the least likable final four ever. This after the strong season last year too. > > Lill remained clueless and undeserving to the end. Sandra rode coattails all the way until the good players were gone. > > The Outcast thing was stupid and ruined the whole season. Also what was with the stupid jury taking part in an immunity challenge- and a final four one at that? Another massive blunder by Burnett this season. > > A major disappointment all around, and one that was self-inflicted by Burnett. After last season’s success, he got cocky. Maybe All-Star will be better. \*\* Maybe a personal disappointment to you but last weeks show was the [highest rated](http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/15/tv.survivor.ap/index.html) prime time show of the week. The other networks with they had something so “disappointing” ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/62 "2003-12-15T16:38:07Z")
First of all, YAY SANDRA!!! I can finally say I thoroughly enjoyed the outcome of a Survivor season. Woo Hoo! Sandra’s Snark Rocks! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > > \*\*In my opinion, the most unfair thing done on the show went back to the first episode; they dumped two tribes into a Panamanian village to buy supplies and only one tribe had a Spanish speaker. The Morgans started at a huge penalty because of the difference in supplies that resulted and it showed in their subsequent play. You could certainly argue the whole show was decided from that one decision by the producers. \*\* I completely disagree with this assessment. Sandra speaking Spanish certainly was beneficial, but the other team’s lack of Spanish speakers was not what caused them problems in that village – it was their utter stupidity! First of all, the Drakes stayed together and worked as a team, right off the boat. Morgan split up and no one had any way of knowing who was going to be bartering for what. Not only that, they left valuable bartering objects abandoned right in front of the other team, who wisely and justifiably used them to their advantage. Those villagers understood the Morgans well enough for them to have gotten the things they did get, so they certainly could’ve gotten more, had they been smart about how they went about it. And to top it off, the Morgans left the village with a lot of unspent cash in their pockets! What _for_? Where the heck did they think they were going to spend it in the jungle? They were IDIOTS, that’s why Drake got so much more stuff, and therefore the advantage after the village. Sandra played a beautiful game right from the get-go. There’s finally a winner who _earned_ that million bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/63 "2003-12-15T16:54:39Z")
I’m glad they did a special tribute to Rupert. He _made_ that show for me and I never quit missing him once he was gone. There was still a sensitive kid inside him that could be easily hurt and he seemed so surprised at how fond everyone had become of him. I was pleased to see that he has a fine wife who has seen through the rough exterior to the tender-heart underneath. But have you ever heard a last name that fits any better? _Boneham!_ It just seems right. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/64 "2003-12-15T16:58:11Z")
Lill is delusional. When asked her chances in a real survival situation, she rated herself a seven out of ten. She said that she can find water, for one thing. Um… Isn’t this the woman who can’t read a frelling _map?_ Who didn’t even _think_ of looking for water on the map? Aiyiyi. And her perception of her behaviour is markedly different from what we saw on tape. She claimed she had a “strategy”, but it was really just “Tell me what to do!”. And when things didn’t go her way, she’d mope. None of the women were very smart. Lill seemed to be unable to predict certain outcomes. A=B and B=C, so A=“You _lied_ to me!”? And yet, she seemed to believe she was scheming. Darrah and Sandra were extremely slow in catching onto Burton’s and Jon’s strategy, and they did not seem to be able to think more than a single step ahead in the game. One thing that struck me is that the women didn’t say, “Look. Jon’s been playing everybody. He tells us that we should take him to the Final Two because he doesn’t stand a chance of winning. But he has been _playing the game!_ He might pick up enough votes just for his audacity. The worst thing we can do is to take him along.” That should have been said a few weeks ago. If I were in Lill’s position, then it would have been my reasoning. It seems it didn’t occur to her. She picked Sandra based solely on her emotions. I’d forgotten that Darrah is a mortician. Perfect job for her, if only she’d been a Goth chick! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/65 "2003-12-15T17:01:22Z")
Anyone hear anything on the talk several months back of a Vegas betting scandal? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/66 "2003-12-15T17:05:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kka \* > \*\*Was it just me, or was there something odd about Rupert’s mouth/teeth? It looked like he had a couple of them knocked out or something. \*\* I noticed the same thing. Wasn’t sure, but it did look like there some big gaps. I can’t believe they let Jon Survivor All-stars. No one wants to see him again. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/67 "2003-12-15T17:10:06Z")
**Dinsdale** –it wasn’t a _Vegas_ betting scandal, since you can’t bet on Survivor in Vegas. But the story before the show began was that there was inordinately heavy betting on Sandra, which turned out to be pointing in the correct direction and spoiled the surprise for me all season. I was surprised by the reunion Lil vs Jon vote. As much as I loath and despise Jon, I would’ve voted for him over Lil. Jon was in for all 39 days and played the game. Lil was 3rd person out, brought back in through an absolute stroke of sheer luck, and did nothing for the remainder (until she won the last IC–the only thing she won all year). ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/68 "2003-12-15T17:11:39Z")
May I just state the obvious, which I’m surprised I haven’t seen yet? Jon + mustache + bushy blond hair = 70s porn star That is all. ---
**Author:** ![mcms\_cricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@mcms\_cricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcms_cricket)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/69 "2003-12-15T17:20:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > \*\*…I can’t believe they let Jon Survivor All-stars. No one wants to see him again. \*\* I don’t know about that - none of the spoiler sits I’ve seen have listed Jon as an All-star player. I think he just threw that out to be obnoxious. If all the spoilers were wrong and he DID do the All-stars, I sincerely hope he got booted out on his bony little ass right away. I was glad Sandra won too - I also think (as someone else here already mentioned) that the jury “vote” on whether Lil would have won if she’d taken Jon was unrealistic. The “jury” was making the decision having already seen the show - so they saw all his to-the-camera confessionals, knew his grandmother was really alive, etc. The real vote comes before-hand and I think that if Lil HAD taken Jon, there’s a real chance he could have made a good case for himself at the final tribal council and won. During the beginning of the show, I was getting SO sick of Lil whining and crying (especially over the letters - what was the point of scrubbing her face with it??) that I was yelling “SHUT UP” at the screen. BUT I have to say that she did great at the final immunity. She was like a rock. I bet she could have lasted a couple of hours more if she’d tried. And the way she refused to even TALK to Jon about a deal - that was awesome. It was the only time during the entire game that I came close to liking her. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/70 "2003-12-15T17:22:20Z")
My son did not watch Survivor all season. He watched some of the live show. After listening to Jon talk for 2 seconds he jumped from his chair and left the room muttering “What a freakin’ turd!” I think poor, stupid Lil really did try to play with a conscience throughout the game. You can’t win that way. And that letter from her son— something like “It’s better to do the right thing and lose.” My daughter’s remark-- “The right thing to do is WIN A MILLION DOLLARS!” Snarkiness. It runs in my family. Probably why I liked Sandra from the get-go. ---
**Author:** ![Redsland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9de0a6/32.png) [@Redsland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redsland)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/71 "2003-12-15T17:23:31Z")
Is there any site that would provide a transcript of Lil and Sandra’s final words (prior to the Q&A)? ---
**Author:** ![cichlidiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f9b8f/32.png) [@cichlidiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cichlidiot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/72 "2003-12-15T17:29:17Z")
It has already been mentioned but Lil’s line about her and Sandra being the “two sole survivors” really cracked me up. I thought there would be a good chance Lil would take Sandra with her when Jeff talked about an example at the TC using Lil as an example. Something about if Lil decided to make a decision based on integrity, etc. I was glad he planted that seed, I think that’s what swayed her in the end. As far as the scout stuff, I think the other players were sick to death of Lil using her uniform as an excuse. She didn’t seem willing to take responsibility for the hand she took in ousting other players and was constantly crying about her decisions. Even Christa (or was it T) mentioned her constantly singing the scout oath around camp, in her chat transcript. I think she played the scout card even more than was shown. I doubt people would have harped on it as much if she hadn’t continually brought it up herself. Did anyone else catch Jeff saying to Lil something about in the previous seasons not one survivor who won the last challenge ever won the million? He forgot about Jenna, wish I could. Anyhow, Sandra won, yippee! On preview, someone did mention the porn-star/mustache on the first page. My SO pointed it out to me last night as well, funny that people noticed that. heh ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/73 "2003-12-15T17:36:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Did anyone else catch Jeff saying to Lil something about in the previous seasons not one survivor who won the last challenge ever won the million? He forgot about Jenna, wish I could. Anyhow, Sandra won, yippee! I thought he said that no one in the last five seasons who won Final Immunity had won the million. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/74 "2003-12-15T17:41:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > > Lill is delusional. When asked her chances in a real survival situation, she rated herself a seven out of ten. She said that she can find water, for one thing. Um… Isn’t this the woman who can’t read a frelling _map?_ Who didn’t even _think_ of looking for water on the map? Aiyiyi. And her perception of her behaviour is markedly different from what we saw on tape. She claimed she had a “strategy”, but it was really just “Tell me what to do!”. And when things didn’t go her way, she’d mope. Hear, hear! I thought the exact same thing when she answered that question. And not only could she not find water, she couldn’t tie a hook to a fishing line and she couldn’t actually catch any fish! > [@](#): > > None of the women were very smart. Lill seemed to be unable to predict certain outcomes. A=B and B=C, so A=“You _lied_ to me!”? And yet, she seemed to believe she was scheming. Darrah and Sandra were extremely slow in catching onto Burton’s and Jon’s strategy, and they did not seem to be able to think more than a single step ahead in the game. > > One thing that struck me is that the women didn’t say, “Look. Jon’s been playing everybody. He tells us that we should take him to the Final Two because he doesn’t stand a chance of winning. But he has been _playing the game!_ He might pick up enough votes just for his audacity. The worst thing we can do is to take him along.” That should have been said a few weeks ago. Ah, but Sandra did say that (or words to that effect). She knew dang well who was perceived as a schemer and who wasn’t and how it might influence a jury vote. And she knew that it was just as likely that the jury would loathe him (a la Clay from Thailand) as respect his playing. What was stupid about Sandra’s thinking was that Lil would get votes for being perceived as nice. It didn’t even occur to her that Lil would lose a ton of votes for being undeserving of even being there anymore in the first place, seeing as how she was voted off the island weeks prior. Sandra did a kickass job answering the questions at the end, but if it’d’ve been me, I’d’ve played up the Outcast angle a lot more. Especially after Ryan, who was the first one up, made a point of it, showing that it really was a thorn in their sides. > [@](#): > > If I were in Lill’s position, then it would have been my reasoning. It seems it didn’t occur to her. She picked Sandra based solely on her emotions. Lil also knew that Jon had a good chance in front of the jury precisely because of his scheming and “playing the game,” which is why she decided that if she was going to possibly lose to someone, she’d rather it be Sandra than Jon. _Her_ stupidity was not figuring out how to actually beat either of them instead of merely _hoping_ she might. The bottom line for Lil was, she didn’t want Jon getting any of that big prize money because she hated him. At that point, she didn’t even care if she won the million dollars anymore, so long as Jon didn’t get either the million _or_ the 100k. I can’t say I blame her for feeling that way. Does anyone know which 2 players really did hook up after the game, if any? My local news claimed it was a fact, but I turned it off before they got to that part of the broadcast. Is there anyone else here who would’ve tried standing on those boards in the final immunity challenge, instead of squatting, right from the start? Maybe it’s because I have really bad knees and can’t squat for even 5 minutes, but I think I would’ve lasted longer spreading my feet as far apart as possible, anchoring them and holding my arms out for balance, than being so close to the water all bent over like that. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cichlidiot \* > > Did anyone else catch Jeff saying to Lil something about in the previous seasons not one survivor who won the last challenge ever won the million? He forgot about Jenna, wish I could. I wish I could, too. I hate that bitch. But he also apparently forgot about Brian from Thailand. He won final immunity and brought the much-hated Clay over Jan and won the million dollars (though not by as wide a margin – the vote was close at 4-3). ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/75 "2003-12-15T17:54:01Z")
Regarding Jeff’s comment about the winner of the final immunity challenge not winning the million: I thought he said that “in five out of the last seven seasons” the winner of the final immunity challenge hasn’t won the million. ---
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/76 "2003-12-15T17:55:19Z")
**chichlidiot** and **Shayna** , I think that what Jeff actually said was that out of the 7 seasons of Survivor, the person who won the final immunity lost the $1mm 5 out of those 7 times. Brian won, and so did Jenna (I think). ---
**Author:** ![mcms\_cricket](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@mcms\_cricket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcms_cricket)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/77 "2003-12-15T18:14:18Z")
\*\*Redsland[\b], I don’t know about an exact transcript, but David B’s recap of the last episode does include all the final speeches and questions. It’s at [http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article3905.art&page=1](http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article3905.art&page=1) and the last-speeches start at [http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article3905.art&page=5](http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article3905.art&page=5) ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/78 "2003-12-15T18:35:16Z")
As soon as Darrah went, I knew I wouldn’t like any ending that could possibly be left. (Didn’t like her either, but she was better than the other 3) I guess what happend was the least offensive of the 3 possibilities after that. I have no doubt Jon would’ve won if Lill took him. He would’ve talked his way into it. In fact I think he would’ve started by admitting the grandma lie, and using it to say: “see I’ve been playing you all along. I’m really not a jerk, I’m just playing the part to get here to final 2, and it worked. I’m playing the game, and I’m good at it.” Bleh… All-Stars should be more fun… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/79 "2003-12-15T18:57:41Z")
**Shayna** : You never call. You never write. I feel so forgotten! ☹ _sniff_ ( 😉 ) > [@](#): > > Ah, but Sandra did say that (or words to that effect). I must’ve missed it. I do remember her alluding to it, but I think she could have made it clearer to the others. (Might’ve taken a while with Lill.) I don’t remember hearing Lill think along those lines at all. It seemed to me that she just didn’t want Jon to have any chance at all because his lifestyle is so different from hers. > [@](#): > > Is there anyone else here who would’ve tried standing on those boards in the final immunity challenge, instead of squatting, right from the start? Maybe it’s because I have really bad knees… I thought of that as well; you know that I destroyed my knees a long time ago. I wondered how I would fare trying to stand on the raft. Probably not very well. ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964/80 "2003-12-15T18:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Algernon \* > \*\* > > I thought he said that “in five out of the last seven seasons” the winner of the final immunity challenge hasn’t won the million. \*\* That is what he said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-finale-12-14/218964.md?page=5)