# Survivor Season 30 (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 26, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642 "2015-02-26T04:29:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/361 "2015-05-16T15:29:33Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > The final vote is always done by an odd number of people. But if there are 3 finalists, there could well be a tie. They have had 8 person juries before, as recently as last season in Blood vs Water 2. Natalie won with 5 votes, Jaclyn had 2 votes and Missy had 1 vote. ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/362 "2015-05-18T15:44:53Z")
When there are 3 finalists it doesn’t matter how many jury members there are. A tie is always possible. And to be pedantic, When there are 2 finalists, you have to have an odd number of jury members to assure there isn’t a tie. But in 29 seasons there hasn’t been a tie when there are 3 finalists. ([14 times](http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Tribal_Council)) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/363 "2015-05-18T16:00:00Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > A producer(used to be Burnett, but I think he has assigned someone else) does go through them, but Probst does get to know before the reveal. Helps with the drama. However, he doesn’t know about any idols about to be played, etc. That’s an interesting point–in both cases from this season where idols were played, he stacked all the votes for the person who used the idol first. If there hadn’t been an idol, that person would have been voted of and he never would have shown who else got votes, which has turned out to be pretty important information for people to have… ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/364 "2015-05-18T16:07:59Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > That’s an interesting point–in both cases from this season where idols were played, he stacked all the votes for the person who used the idol first. If there hadn’t been an idol, that person would have been voted of and he never would have shown who else got votes, which has turned out to be pretty important information for people to have… When an idol is played, he almost certainly says “I’ll go re-tally the votes” and then goes back over to re-order the votes again for maximum drama. Easily edited out, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/365 "2015-05-18T16:21:51Z")
That would be lame and a half. Any confirmation of that from people who’ve watched all the podcasts & twitter & such? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/366 "2015-05-18T17:14:32Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > That would be lame and a half. Any confirmation of that from people who’ve watched all the podcasts & twitter & such? I can’t say for sure, but I believe they want Jeff to be shocked/surprised as well, so they just show it as it plays out. I have not noticed that he reveals votes that way, though. Maybe he has them organized and does a simple reshuffle in the box. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/367 "2015-05-19T14:07:16Z")
After previous seasons, players have said that sometimes Jeff would be “tallying the votes” for hours. Also, Jeff said about ten seasons ago (so he may well have changed his tactics since then) that he didn’t watch most of the footage on a day-to-day basis, so that he could be more surprised and react like a viewer rather than seeming to be the guy who knew everything: he’s the first member of the audience, not the dungeon master. He only wanted to know about things that might affect the production, like if somebody was injured or sick or about to pound somebody. He didn’t even necessarily know if people had found idols (or, he didn’t know right away). ---
**Author:** ![Borborygmi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/borborygmi/32/217_2.png) [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/368 "2015-05-19T16:19:27Z")
This came up fairly recently in one of Dalton Ross’ weekly interviews with Probst: [‘Survivor’ host Jeff Probst reveals how he orders the votes at Tribal Council](http://www.ew.com/article/2014/11/27/survivor-jeff-probst-san-juan-del-sur-episode-10) Note: not sure why the date displayed on the linked page is from 2015… this Q&A is for Episode 10 of _Survivor: San Juan del Sur_, which aired on November 26, 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/369 "2015-05-19T16:44:05Z")
I’ll quote Jeff for those who want the main part. > [@](#): > > Any time someone who I know has an idol also receives votes, I have to be prepared for them to play the idol. So I stack the votes prepared for them to play the idol, as that is the assumption I always make. If they play the idol, I read the votes as read and we usually eliminate their votes off the top so we can delay the reveal of who is going home. If they don’t play the idol, then I have to pull the votes out in an order different from the way they are stacked. In this case it was a bit more complicated because we had two potential idols that might or might not be played. It’s definitely the only time I am ever slightly stressed about reading the votes simply because I don’t want to mess up the drama. In the end, from a game point of view, it doesn’t matter how you reveal them — an idol negates votes. We just want to present them in the most dramatic fashion, so we pay close attention and try to think through every scenario. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/370 "2015-05-19T16:51:21Z")
In a way, I suppose they always have to re-order the votes (whether off-camera or subtly depending on Idols being played) because they usually try to have it end with “Xth person voted out of Survivor (turns around card) XYZ!” Has there been times when Jeff has flipped around the card to show that someone else has been voted out? (Example: 4 votes for X, 2 votes for Y, X plays an Idol, if the votes were read YYXXXX then it would be weird). On the other hand, Jeff re-arranging the votes after the time for Idol-playing has based basically gives away that there’s an Idol in the game. Late-game this usually doesn’t matter, people know it’s out there, but early on people aren’t sure. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/371 "2015-05-19T16:55:36Z")
Great, so people who think of themselves as Survivor elites will now be watching to see if somebody gets the first three or four cards in a row (rather than staggered, like he usually does) as an indicator that that person has an idol… ---
**Author:** ![FlightlessBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cdc98d/32.png) [@FlightlessBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlightlessBird)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/372 "2015-05-19T19:00:15Z")
Maybe they have little indicators that show the order he should read them in. If no idol gets played, use the yellow dots, if one gets played for player X use the red dots, if played for player Y user the blue dots. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/373 "2015-05-19T21:02:05Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > That’s one reason why some people hate the shows (or seasons) where there are 3 finalists. I never understood why Jiffy introduced this format. I believe the final-three format is a backstop against the “goat strategy,” i.e., a strong, charismatic player taking a much weaker player to the final two. Of course, a three-finalist FTC doesn’t preclude a player taking _two_ goats to the end, but that’s quite a bit more difficult to implement. ---
**Author:** ![PeskiPiksi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@PeskiPiksi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PeskiPiksi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/374 "2015-05-19T21:35:42Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Of course, a three-finalist FTC doesn’t preclude a player taking _two_ goats to the end, but that’s quite a bit more difficult to implement. Unfortunately, all too easy in this “Season of the Goats.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/375 "2015-05-20T12:35:23Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I believe the final-three format is a backstop against the “goat strategy,” i.e., a strong, charismatic player taking a much weaker player to the final two. > > Of course, a three-finalist FTC doesn’t preclude a player taking _two_ goats to the end, but that’s quite a bit more difficult to implement. Not this season–at 6, they had two players (Tyler and Mike) and four goats (Rodney, Dan, Celia and Carolyn). All Mike has to do to win this is not suck for the next few challenges. Probably wouldn’t hurt if he put a little bit of time looking for an idol, either. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/376 "2015-05-20T13:41:22Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Great, so people who think of themselves as Survivor elites will now be watching to see if somebody gets the first three or four cards in a row (rather than staggered, like he usually does) as an indicator that that person has an idol… How? He said he reads them in a different order if the idol is not played. How would they know? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/377 "2015-05-20T14:03:44Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > How? He said he reads them in a different order if the idol is not played. How would they know? If they had several votes where the person with the idol only got one or two votes, he’d probably just read them in the order they’re stacked, so, say, Carolyn could have been read first at three or four TC’s in a row (if she had gotten votes). Same with Mike, really, and he’s gotten more votes. Probably not a big deal, but some of the people who style themselves experts within the game get a bit obsessed. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/378 "2015-05-20T14:51:57Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not this season–at 6, they had two players (Tyler and Mike) and four goats (Rodney, Dan, Celia and Carolyn). All Mike has to do to win this is not suck for the next few challenges. Probably wouldn’t hurt if he put a little bit of time looking for an idol, either. At 6, it was Mike, Dan, Sierra, Carolyn, Rodney and Will. Tyler was gone at number 7. I’m not sure I’d call Carolyn a goat either, and she’s won 2 immunity challenges, so Mike isn’t anywhere near safe. Plus I’d be shocked if there are any more HIIs out there - usually once they’re down to 5 players left, HIIs are no longer usable. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/379 "2015-05-20T18:06:37Z")
I think final 5 is the last time you can play an idol. It can get you into the final 4, but no further. ---
**Author:** ![ekweizn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7c8e57/32.png) [@ekweizn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekweizn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642/380 "2015-05-20T18:13:44Z")
Regarding the vote reveal after anyone hands Jeff an HII, it would make more sense to cut right after Jeff says his line, “This is a hidden immunity idol. Any votes cast for XXXXX will not count.” Jeff can then take the voting urn out back to where the votes are cast and allow enough time to rearrange the votes (whether or not they have to be rearranged). When he returns, he just continues with “I’ll read the votes”. No risk of messing up the vote ordering or telegraphing the outcome to the contestants/audience, with the minimal cost of an extra cut in the edit. This also mitigates the need for Jeff to know who has the HII, which is a potential source of unfairness in the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/survivor-season-30-spoilers/713642.md?page=20)