# Susan G Komen cuts funding to PP **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413 "2012-02-01T13:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/321 "2013-05-09T20:39:35Z")
YogSosoth: > [@](#): > > If he was as smart as others make him out to be, I hope he says “WTF is wrong with you people??” Or, given what his followers believe about him, it’s entirely possible that he’d say, “You really think it’s OK to kill babies just because you can’t keep it in your pants? What’s wrong with _you_ people?” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/322 "2013-05-09T21:33:28Z")
If you’re opposed to abortion and there are PP-type groups that provide similar sex education and contraception and health care services without the abortion component, \*\* Ají de Gallina\*\*'s position is more workable. I’m not aware of any of those in the U.S., at least not of that size and scope. Probably that’s because in the U.S., if you’re against abortion it’s very likely you’re opposed to contraception and sex education. In other countries maybe that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/323 "2013-05-09T22:53:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Of course, this is not actually a compromise on child killing. Great soundbyte, though! Before abortion: live kid After abortion: Dead kid. > [@](#): > > Well, bub, this is America. The only thing that drives women’s health policy is trying to kill organizations liberals like. Talk about a soudbyte. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > But wait! Think about this hypothetical! What if, just what if, there was a group that helped women, not with abortions, follow me here, but with things like mammograms and pap smears? And and this organization, was like, reeeeaaaaally dedicated to helping especially poor women, women who can’t just go to their doctors to do these things! And that all of this was paid through a combination of private and public funds!! And here’s the best part, some of what they do might involve abortions, but all of those funds for mammograms and stuff like that aren’t even allowed to touch! Like, physically, the money for abortions must be kept in a separate bank account and must be held at least 50 feet away from the pap smear, birth control, and mammogram money at all times! Forever! And there’s another good part too! What if, just listen for a second, what if…the organization actually did things that had nothing to do with abortions to LOWER abortions overall! What if they are saving kids and women by providing education, and infomercials and brochures and seminars and freaking birth control that, and you can look this up(!!!) that actually isn’t an abortion at all but prevents one from being necessary in the future! And that without this organization, again the same one we’re talking about, there would be MORE abortions and more death to fetuses overall! Oh…what if! What if such an organization exists?!? Wouldn’t that be great?? One that tries to stop abortion using non-dickish methods! Methods like education and birth control??! Methods that actually **WORK**!? Would you then support them? And remember, this is KNOWING that if you didn’t, overall abortions would go up like Superman’s erection?? Read post 312 > [@Gyrate](#): > > Yeah, I tried that argument in shorter form in #309. It’s the principle of the thing, you know? Better that there be more actual abortions than that you might be seen to support them. I mean, what would [del]the neighbors[/del] Jesus say? Yes. > [@Marley23](#): > > If you’re opposed to abortion and there are PP-type groups that provide similar sex education and contraception and health care services without the abortion component, \*\* Ají de Gallina\*\*'s position is more workable. I’m not aware of any of those in the U.S., at least not of that size and scope. Probably that’s because in the U.S., if you’re against abortion it’s very likely you’re opposed to contraception and sex education. In other countries maybe that’s not the case. Interesting that you say that. Here in Peru, you get Catholic gruops, really conservative, providing free pap, mammos, pregnancy care. No abortions. The governemt provides free contraception. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/324 "2013-05-09T23:31:22Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Before abortion: live kid > After abortion: Dead kid. Baloney. And yet again, I am obliged to post a reminder that we are talking about donations that don’t pay for abortion in any way, so there is no compromise being made on “child killing.” There is, however, a compromise that reflects the importance of other services this group provides. > [@](#): > > Interesting that you say that. Here in Peru, you get Catholic gruops, really conservative, providing free pap, mammos, pregnancy care. No abortions. > The governemt provides free contraception. And here that doesn’t happen because opposition to abortion tracks pretty strongly with opposition to birth control and sex education that teaches anything more than “don’t have sex.” So those things are all the subject of controversy even though more birth control and better sex education means fewer abortions. And for that matter, those views also track pretty closely with “I don’t want my taxes to pay for poor women’s health care- or their child care.” ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/325 "2013-05-10T01:43:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Baloney. And yet again, I am obliged to post a reminder that we are talking about donations that don’t pay for abortion in any way, so there is no compromise being made on “child killing.” There is, however, a compromise that reflects the importance of other services this group provides. I’ll repat what I said in 321 > [@](#): > > What’s more, any person who’s not fanatical about it and that would donate to an organization that, in their minds, does that, **even if the money will not even in the most indirect of ways fund it** , is morally deficient an unable to lecture me about morality. Abortion is too much of an issue. Nobody would say that (i.e. fund it cuz your money ain’t going there) if PP had a slavery-supporting arm. > [@](#): > > And here that doesn’t happen because opposition to abortion tracks pretty strongly with opposition to birth control and sex education that teaches anything more than “don’t have sex.” So those things are all the subject of controversy even though more birth control and better sex education means fewer abortions. And for that matter, those views also track pretty closely with “I don’t want my taxes to pay for poor women’s health care- or their child care.” Here too you have groups opposing abortion that also oppose contraception yet still provide the free services for pre-natal care, pap, mammos; no questions asked: the health of thebaby and the mother are first. Sex education that is only “don’t have it” is silly. Sex education that explains all the issues and then says “don’t” is not silly. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/326 "2013-05-10T01:55:20Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I’ll repat what I said in 321 I know what you mean. I feel exactly the same way about the Catholic Church. I know they do good things and give comfort to a lot of people, but anyone who participates in and funds a church that actively covered up sexual abuse of children is someone whom I have serious ethical doubts about. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/327 "2013-05-10T08:33:30Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > YogSosoth: > > Or, given what his followers believe about him, it’s entirely possible that he’d say, “You really think it’s OK to kill babies just because you can’t keep it in your pants? What’s wrong with _you_ people?” Are you saying women can’t “keep it in their pants” (did you take one of those southern state abstinance only classes?) and just go get abortions because it is so cheap and easy? So who gets abortions and why do they get them? 50% are all pregnancies are ‘unintended’ pregnancies. Of the women: 70% are poor- below 100% of the federal poverty level 30% are ‘higher income’. 75% report they are religious (28% Catholic, 37% Protestant) 36% are white 30% black 25% Hispanic 45% are single 18% are teens 50% are in their 20’s 0.4% are under 15 60% terminate before 9 weeks 60% have children already 75% say they cannot afford another child 54% say they used contraceptive 50% say they no male support, even if they are married 75% report having concerns for family, work, school There are over 1 million abortions a year. This number is far too high. But, if abortions were made illegal tomorrow, what should we do with these one million unwanted kids every year? I’m sure a large number of women would keep the kids. What percent? I don’t know. Lets go for 70%. We now only need to place 300,000 kids a year. That’s only 6,000 per state per year. Maybe we can open some “baby towns” and put them all in there. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/328 "2013-05-10T18:43:03Z")
And your point is…? The poster I was responding to made the somewhat absurd statement that if the guy whose teachings Christians follow were to manifest in today’s world, he’d say that people should fund Planned Parenthood for the sake of their contraceptive offerings because those will reduce the kind of pregnancies that are likely to get aborted. Given that the followers of said guy find his (purported) teachings high on celibacy and low on non-procreative sex, the likelihood is that he’d reject the notion that contraception or abortion is an either-or choice when it comes to unwanted pregnancy. And strictly speaking, he’s not wrong, although obviously, Americans (and other modern Western nationals) have a lot more fun trying to deny that fact than consider it a realistic option. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/329 "2013-05-10T18:47:17Z")
I think he’d be pissed that anyone’s having sex at all. He had a real This Is The End Times schtick. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/330 "2013-05-10T19:37:26Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Here too you have groups opposing abortion that also oppose contraception yet still provide the free services for pre-natal care, pap, mammos; no questions asked: the health of thebaby and the mother are first. I’m not sure why we’re repeating this. I said earlier that in your situation, it makes sense to give to one of those other organizations that don’t do abortion. In the U.S., I don’t see those alternatives and I was explaining the reason. > [@](#): > > Sex education that is only “don’t have it” is silly. Sex education that explains all the issues and then says “don’t” is not silly. I know. I’m not the one of the people who insists on what’s called abstinence only sex education, which come to think of it is a contradiction in terms, and in any case the programs don’t work! ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/331 "2013-05-10T21:06:26Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Compromise on child-killing? Nope, not a little. Killing women, though? That’s peachy! Of course it is perfectly moral to prevent women from receiving life-saving health care if you can pat yourself on the back that you’re being moral about it. And it’s perfectly moral to increase the number of abortions by preventing women from receiving family planning services as long as you strut around proclaiming your disgust with abortion. :rolleyes: It’s nice that other countries have other options to provide women’s health services. Those options don’t exist in the U.S. PP is the sole provider for many women and their families. Defunding PP kills women and increases abortions. No amount of self-congratulatory anti-abortion rhetoric will change that. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/332 "2013-05-10T21:16:05Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > Killing women, though? That’s peachy! > > Of course it is perfectly moral to prevent women from receiving life-saving health care if you can pat yourself on the back that you’re being moral about it. > > And it’s perfectly moral to increase the number of abortions by preventing women from receiving family planning services as long as you strut around proclaiming your disgust with abortion. > > :rolleyes: > > It’s nice that other countries have other options to provide women’s health services. Those options don’t exist in the U.S. PP is the sole provider for many women and their families. > > Defunding PP kills women and increases abortions. No amount of self-congratulatory anti-abortion rhetoric will change that. I don’t know about your county, but here the [county health department](http://www.nashville.gov/Health-Department/Clinical-Health-Services/Family-Planning.aspx) provides birth control for uninsured women. That’s Nashville. My county is the next county over. It provides > [@](#): > > Family Planning - Education, counseling, physical exam and birth control are provided. > > Women’s Health – Routine preventive care, sick care and physicals are provided to uninsured women 21 years and older. Preventive care includes providing or ordering pap smears and mammograms, some of which can be at no cost to uninsured, low income women ages 40 through 64 years. Low income, uninsured women suspected of or diagnosed with cervical or breast cancer can be assisted in obtaining TennCare quickly. StG ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/333 "2013-05-10T22:11:09Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > I don’t know about your county, but here the [county health department](http://www.nashville.gov/Health-Department/Clinical-Health-Services/Family-Planning.aspx) provides birth control for uninsured women. > > That’s Nashville. My county is the next county over. It provides > > StG Excellent. So I assume that Planned Parenthood has closed in your area, having no one to whom to provide the 97% of their services unrelated to abortion. Problem solved for Tennessee. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/334 "2013-05-11T15:34:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure why we’re repeating this. I said earlier that in your situation, it makes sense to give to one of those other organizations that don’t do abortion. In the U.S., I don’t see those alternatives and I was explaining the reason. > > I know. I’m not the one of the people who insists on what’s called abstinence only sex education, which come to think of it is a contradiction in terms, and in any case the programs don’t work! I cannot imagine that there are no other alternatives in the US. it simply boggles the mind. > [@redtail23](#): > > Killing women, though? That’s peachy! > > Of course it is perfectly moral to prevent women from receiving life-saving health care if you can pat yourself on the back that you’re being moral about it. > > And it’s perfectly moral to increase the number of abortions by preventing women from receiving family planning services as long as you strut around proclaiming your disgust with abortion. > > :rolleyes: > > It’s nice that other countries have other options to provide women’s health services. Those options don’t exist in the U.S. PP is the sole provider for many women and their families. > > Defunding PP kills women and increases abortions. No amount of self-congratulatory anti-abortion rhetoric will change that. I’m more than sure that there are other alternatives to PP that would rise to the occasion; no, not instantly; but If PP dropped its abortion branch I’d have no problem funding their very useful non-baby-killing activities. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/335 "2013-06-05T23:25:19Z")
2014 walk is cancelled in Phoenix, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, San Francisco and Washington due to lack of meeting goals. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413/336 "2013-06-06T00:07:49Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Interesting that you say that. Here in Peru, you get Catholic gruops, really conservative, providing free pap, mammos, pregnancy care. No abortions. > The governemt provides free contraception. Unfortunately we don’t get that in the US. Why are Catholic groups not providing free paps, mamos, pregnancy care in the US? We have a huge Catholic population. Also there is no free contraception in the US. Why is that? The anti-contraception Catholic vote perhaps? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/susan-g-komen-cuts-funding-to-pp/611413.md?page=16)