# Suspending a six-year-old from school for pretending his finger was a gun and saying 'POW' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 4, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015 "2013-01-04T00:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/101 "2013-01-05T21:56:31Z")
If as that child I had some particular thing recently happen, like my uncle was in jail for strangling my aunt, and the adult did that, saw that I cried, and then kept doing it, even after I told him why it upset me so much, I would think it would be reasonable to presume some psychopathology on the part of the adult. I would be a scared kid. Wouldn’t you? (To jtgain) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/102 "2013-01-05T21:59:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Teachers have a duty to stop harassing behavior. If this kid was harassing another kid, with a pointed finger or a silly chant or an obnoxious face, he needed to stop. Again, conversations about whether it was a real threat are beside the point. I can agree with you if the school administration had framed it in that context. But as the linked article shows, they suspended the kid for “threatening to kill” a classmate and the kid went home and asked his Mom what “Connecticut” was. They took a minor childhood disruption and painted the kid like a serial killer. They treated the finger pointing above and beyond what continued insubordination (like sticking his tongue out) would have warranted, and did so only out of irrational fear of gun violence. If you could show an out of school suspension for regular childhood taunts like “Anna Banana” or the sticking out of tongues, then I will withdraw my objection to the punishment. But it seems as if they overreacted only because of the gun aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/103 "2013-01-05T21:59:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > Teachers have a duty to stop harassing behavior. If this kid was harassing another kid, with a pointed finger or a silly chant or an obnoxious face, he needed to stop. Again, conversations about whether it was a real threat are beside the point. Seriously, the kid is 6 years old. You can’t get a room full of College Seniors to follow rules like that, how can you expect a 1st grader to comply? Do you really believe the child appreciated the “harassing” nature of pointing a finger at another child? Remember, whether he said “pow” is in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/104 "2013-01-05T22:05:40Z")
[Maybe the kid has a medical disorder](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_finger). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/105 "2013-01-05T22:08:51Z")
The impression that I get from the last article is that this all evolved over one day. A suspension makes less sense.to me in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/106 "2013-01-05T22:16:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Seriously, the kid is 6 years old. You can’t get a room full of College Seniors to follow rules like that, how can you expect a 1st grader to comply? Do you really believe the child appreciated the “harassing” nature of pointing a finger at another child? Remember, whether he said “pow” is in dispute. You know I teach third grade, right? I certainly expect my third graders to comply, and when I taught second grade, I expected them to comply, and I guarantee I’d expect first graders to comply if that’s what I taught. > [@jtgain](#): > > I can agree with you if the school administration had framed it in that context. But as the linked article shows, they suspended the kid for “threatening to kill” a classmate and the kid went home and asked his Mom what “Connecticut” was. They took a minor childhood disruption and painted the kid like a serial killer. I haven’t read that linked article (I’ve read others on the case). If that’s what happened, that strengthens the case for the school, not weakening it. Mere harassment is unacceptable. If the kid in question was making threats to kill another kid, that makes it much less acceptable, not diminishing it to the level of hijinks. There’s a Margaret Atwood quote I think of about once a day: “Little girls are not cute to one another. They are life-sized.” You might not think it’s reasonable for a six-year-old to be frightened by a threat from another six-year-old, because kids are cute to you. Another six-year-old lacks the context to understand the threat, however. Kids are life-sized to one another. They know about the rage and hate that can lurk in the hearts of a child. And if they know about a recent school shooting, the harassment might end up being a lot more effective. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/107 "2013-01-05T22:23:22Z")
What in the world does asking what Connecticut is have to do with whether a kid is breaking the rules? Please let this mean my ignorance of geography enables me to stop paying taxes or obeying speed limits. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/108 "2013-01-05T22:30:41Z")
Serious overreaction. While he behavior was not good, this could have been remedied with a simple private lecture from a teacher. (By the way, I got here from Sevencl’s pit thread.) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/109 "2013-01-05T22:33:24Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Serious overreaction. While he behavior was not good, this could have been remedied with a simple private lecture from a teacher. How do you know this? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/110 "2013-01-05T22:34:55Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Serious overreaction. While he behavior was not good, this could have been remedied with a simple private lecture from a teacher. That’s the point. It wasn’t resolved through multiple private lectures. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/111 "2013-01-05T22:37:07Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Seriously, the kid is 6 years old. You can’t get a room full of College Seniors to follow rules like that, how can you expect a 1st grader to comply? Do you really believe the child appreciated the “harassing” nature of pointing a finger at another child? Remember, whether he said “pow” is in dispute. What college students are you talking about? None of the college seniors I teach have any problems comporting themselves appropriately. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/112 "2013-01-05T23:36:47Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What college students are you talking about? None of the college seniors I teach have any problems comporting themselves appropriately. Ivy League stealth brag?😃 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/113 "2013-01-06T01:11:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The impression that I get from the last article is that this all evolved over one day. A suspension makes less sense.to me in that case. Absolutely! The new link above states that, “The child was reprimanded twice earlier the day of the incident” and implies that there was no history before that. In other words, because a six-year-old failed to change his behaviour over the course of _one day_ (apparently before his parents were even notified and thus before they had a chance to talk to him), he was suspended. That’s absurd! And, if I’m correct that all this happened over the course of only one day at school, and that he was suspended before his parents even had a chance to speak to him, then the mom was entirely justified in her protest and appeal (and the principal an idiot). ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/114 "2013-01-06T01:27:46Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Absolutely! > > The new link above states that, “The child was reprimanded twice earlier the day of the incident” and implies that there was no history before that. In other words, because a six-year-old failed to change his behaviour over the course of _one day_ (apparently before his parents were even notified and thus before they had a chance to talk to him), he was suspended. That’s absurd! > > And, if I’m correct that all this happened over the course of only one day at school, and that he was suspended before his parents even had a chance to speak to him, then the mom was entirely justified in her protest and appeal (and the principal an idiot). Well, not exactly. It means there was no history of the _finger gunning_ before that day. But nevertheless, still seems like a rapid escalation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/115 "2013-01-06T01:29:10Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The impression that I get from the last article is that this all evolved over one day. A suspension makes less sense.to me in that case. Not at all the impression I get. From the article: > [@](#): > > The child was reprimanded twice earlier the day of the incident, his mother said. But then later… > [@](#): > > In suspending Rodney, an assistant school principal wrote in a Dec. 20 letter that the boy “threatened to shoot a student” and had been spoken to earlier about a similar incident. > > Contacted by the family’s attorney, the school system gave more detail in a second letter, writing that a parent had been warned of the problem and that a counselor had talked to the child about “the inappropriateness of using objects to make shooting gestures.” That sounds to me as though he’d been counseled repeatedly about the behavior prior to that day, and then again spoken with about the behavior twice on that day. If a school is able to act that quickly in response to harassment–getting a kid to meet with the school counselor on the same day–I’m in awe of their bureaucracy. Without saying anything about my school, I’ll just say I find that kind of alacrity to be unlikely. > [@](#): > > “He’s going to be in that school system 12 years, and those words [about the threat to shoot a student] are very damning,” said Robin Ficker, the family’s attorney. > > Ficker declined to provide a copy of the ruling, which he said was issued by Principal Annette Ffolkes. He said it granted the appeal but was critical of the child. This quote, I think, demonstrates a real problem here. The parents and their attorney are free to tell us whatever they’d like. But they’re also free to hide information from us that makes their case look less-than-stellar, and it seems clear they’re exercising that prerogative. The school, meanwhile, can’t offer us specifics. We should understand that the version of the story we’re getting is the one that an attorney has spun to be most positive to the child. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/116 "2013-01-06T01:32:17Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > If he got suspended for pointing an index finger, I wonder what he would have gotten for a middle finger? Depends. Would that be an assault weapon? ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/117 "2013-01-06T02:09:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … From a child’s POV they have heard that a person no one thought was a threat, a skinny meek kid, came in and just murdered a whole bunch of kids just like them in a school just like theirs. Do you really think that no normal kids had nightmares over that? Do you really think that no normal child was bit scared that it could happen to them and that a pretend threat might actually be followed up with real harm? Do you really and truly have no understanding that the same age that often still believes in Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy can have irrational fears as a normal behavior in the face of atypical events? … i must question the likelihood of this. can a normal six-year-old really relate that closely to the horror that happened in another state, with no images or experience to tie it to the event? my impression is that most kids that age would only relate to dangers that are immediate and apparent. more a barking dog and less standing next to a busy street. it seems to me that it is more likely that it was the teacher who was affected by the child’s actions and, sharing your thoughts, escalated matters over a short period of time. P.S. all of these of course, is no comfort to Timmy (our imaginary child totally unrelated to the OP) who was bullied since the beginning of the school year - if only the bully has used finger pistols, then the adults would have done something! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/118 "2013-01-06T02:52:19Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > i must question the likelihood of this. can a normal six-year-old really relate that closely to the horror that happened in another state, with no images or experience to tie it to the event? my impression is that most kids that age would only relate to dangers that are immediate and apparent. more a barking dog and less standing next to a busy street. Not at all my experience. Kids at even much younger ages are perfectly capable of freaking out about things far less likely than a school shooting. I remember the terror I had as a kid that the bomb in the toilet was going to explode and kill me. What separates us from kids in this respect isn’t our capacity for being afraid of unlikely things; it’s our capacity to recognize what’s unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/119 "2013-01-06T03:06:21Z")
> [@theR](#): > > I hope that’s the real thinking, because other interpretations of motivations behind suspensions can be much worse. One of the punishments for skipping classes at my high school was getting suspended. That’s right, if someone skipped classes they were sometimes punished by making them skip more classes. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > That’s the kind of thing that seems really ironic..until you think about it for a second. In fact, when they made me skip more classes, I enjoyed it so much that I ended up not going back to school… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015/120 "2013-01-06T04:27:33Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > First, children do not have license to do whatever they want under the guise of playing. Secondly, they are not at liberty to play at will in school. Additionally, a child whose practice when reprimanded by a teacher is to laugh and repeat the behavior is very atypical and kind of fucked up. They are certainly going to be disruptive to the classroom, to undermine the teacher’s authority and the cohesion of the classroom. They are very likely going to have ti be removed from the classroom. He was suspended for a trivial matter. Kids repeatedly misbehave all the time in school. this is no different than talking out of turn and you would never hear of a suspension over something like that. What the school did was so beyond stupid that those responsible should be disciplined. If I were the parents I wouldn’t settle for a reversal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suspending-a-six-year-old-from-school-for-pretending-his-finger-was-a-gun-and-saying-pow/646015.md?page=7)