# Swamp Thing from Muskogee! Rightard Pride Week! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042 "2004-08-09T16:19:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/181 "2004-08-13T20:59:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Miller** , you don’t have to be such an obtuse ass, right after suggesting that someone else doesn’t read. You know fucking well what \*\*SA \*\* meant. It’s apparent you fucking well _don’t_…and you _can’t_, even when it’s explained to you! (Does this mean an apology is _not_ forthcoming?) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/182 "2004-08-13T22:06:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Eddy** , fair enough. Perhaps he’s one of those veteran posters who never did learn to think over what he’s said before hitting Enter. That makes many readers, such as me, tend to scroll quickly past his subsequent posts without giving him credit for admitting, once again, that he’s wrong and for all the wrong reasons. It would be easier not to be highly skeptical if he didn’t keep on doing that, though. Meh, what’s “veteran”? **SA** joined the Dope in December 2003. That’s what? Nine months?\* As he himself admits, he got off to a rocky start and has been flailing about trying to find a posting style that works for him. Maybe he’s just a slow learner?\*\* I agree, it would be easier on everyone if **SA** didn’t go on finding himself with yet another bullet hole in his instep. But Rome wasn’t built in a day, etc. etc. At least we have a shot at reorienting this one, once the Liberal Agenda stormtroopers take over and the re-education camps open. 😉 \*You do know the gestation period for elephants is 22 months, right? \*\*Sorry, pal, I just couldn’t resist. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/183 "2004-08-13T23:25:14Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > At least we have a shot at reorienting this one, once the Liberal Agenda stormtroopers take over and the re-education camps open. 😉 > > \*You do know the gestation period for elephants is 22 months, right? > > \*\*Sorry, pal, I just couldn’t resist. 😛 No problem. But aren’t you just a little nonplussed to have to acknowledge that stormtroopers and re-education camps, as opposed to logic and life experience, are necessary to bring such as me around to your way of thinking? 😃😃😃😃😃 \*You _had_ to know I couldn’t resist either, right? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/184 "2004-08-14T00:02:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Miller** , you don’t have to be such an obtuse ass, right after suggesting that someone else doesn’t read. You know fucking well what \*\*SA \*\* meant. You know fucking well what **Excalibre** means, too - with his advantage of being right. Yes, I actually _do_ know what **SA** meant to say. I spent four fucking pages in this thread trying to, you know, _actually communicate_ with the guy, instead of immediately writing him off because he has different politics than I do. You should try that sometime: saves a lot of wear and tear on the old leg-joints. I also just love that in this thread, I’ve been accused by **Starving Artist** for reading too much into a quote, and now, apparently, I’m being accused of not reading _enough_ into a quote. I feel like Goldilocks. This post is too extreme, this post is too mild, but _this_ post is juuuust right. > [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t understand. How do you guys define “defending”? To me, his plea for others to stop spreading “hate” and his justification of the Coburn’s phrase declaring us homos to be the country’s biggest “threat to freedom” were defending Coburn. He might not have been defending the views the dude expressed, but he was jumping in to stop the rest of us from pitting the dude. How is that not “defending” him? > > Maybe I’m just another hatemonger, but I’m not quite ready to join in the Starving Artist love-fest either. I actually agree that this is an obvious conclusion to come to when reading **SA** ’s posts in the first couple pages of this thread. Thing is, I really do believe that he has no idea it would come across that way, and I think the last two pages show this, and also demonstrate that he’s willing to listen to criticism and change his approach, which I think is always commendable. And after spending a couple days trying to reach a place of understanding with him, it’s more than a little aggravating to have a bunch of people suddenly show up and try to stir up shit that’s already been settled. I think its patently obvious that he wasn’t defending Coburn’s statements, just objecting to what he considered a gross over-exageration of his slur. And that’s fine: I still think he’s being naive if he doesn’t believe that wasn’t Coburns exact intent, but you don’t need the Al Qaeda interpretation to be disgusted by that remark. Right now, I wish I’d never brought it up, because it’s turned into this gigantic red herring. He never said one word in support of Coburn. He could have been a little more clear in distancing himself from Coburn’s remarks when he first started posting here, but a failure to condemn is not the same as a gesture of support. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/185 "2004-08-14T01:02:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > a failure to condemn is not the same as a gesture of support. So, Senor Quixote, is the purpose of your visit to our country business or pleasure? Enjoy your stay. [/irony mode OFF] For the record, **Miller** , you’ve just distilled **SA** ’s basic defense of his own posts into thirteen words. Well done. **SA** , I hope you’re taking notes. I could have spent the last two days reading spoilers for _Collateral_. Grumble grumble. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/186 "2004-08-14T01:32:20Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > No problem. But aren’t you just a little nonplussed to have to acknowledge that stormtroopers and re-education camps, as opposed to logic and life experience, are necessary to bring such as me around to your way of thinking? :: snerk :: Well, see, now, this is where I get to skewer you with comments about hidebound conservatives, and rigid ideologues, and slowness of comprehension, and the educable, trainable mentally challenged, and… :: off to apply logic and life experience in the agile, assured Liberal Way[sup]tm[/sup] to yet another conundrum befuddling the earnest but dim Conservative Bulb[sup]tm[/sup] :: 😛😛😛 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/187 "2004-08-14T01:36:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > So, Senor Quixote, is the purpose of your visit to our country business or pleasure? > > Enjoy your stay. > > [/irony mode OFF] For the record, **Miller** , you’ve just distilled **SA** ’s basic defense of his own posts into thirteen words. Well done. **SA** , I hope you’re taking notes. I could have spent the last two days reading spoilers for _Collateral_. Grumble grumble. Too damn funny! I was just about to point out to Miller myself that he had very succinctly and accurately summed up what I had been trying to say for days in only two lines of text, and that perhaps I’d be well advised to just ask _him_ to post my thoughts from now on. 😃 And **Miller** , I, too am growing tired of beating this dead horse. All the pertinent information regarding this thread is here and available for anyone who wants to look for it. And I can tell you for a fact, some of continued vituperation I’m coming in for here is a result of past interactions in other threads. I think it’d be a good idea to just stop feeding the beast and it’ll die of neglect. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/188 "2004-08-14T01:40:57Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > :: snerk :: > > Well, see, now, this is where I get to skewer you with comments about hidebound conservatives, and rigid ideologues, and slowness of comprehension, and the educable, trainable mentally challenged, and… > > :: off to apply logic and life experience in the agile, assured Liberal Way[sup]tm[/sup] to yet another conundrum befuddling the earnest but dim Conservative Bulb[sup]tm[/sup] :: > > 😛😛😛 ::scratches head in bewilderment like a good earnest but dim Conservative Bulb:: Huh? What? Uh…I don’t get it… 😃😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/189 "2004-08-14T01:42:57Z")
We know. We’re working on it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/190 "2004-08-14T02:28:46Z")
It’s just taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/191 "2004-08-14T02:44:32Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s just taking longer than we thought. :: snerk, yourself :: 😛 (I almost left out the apostrophe…gives a whole 'nother meaning.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/192 "2004-08-14T02:50:39Z")
Damn! I really am dim, at least tonight. I’m walking away from the computer to go and do my starving artist thing and it occurs to me: “Hey, that wasn’t an apostrophe, it was a _comma_!” Please amend accordingly. :: adopts best Dobby voice :: “ **SA** will go iron his hands now.” ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/193 "2004-08-14T13:51:37Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > **I DID NO SUCH THING!** > > Got it? I’ll say it again… > > **I DID NO SUCH THING!** > > Let me explain, yet again (sigh) what I said and meant. I said Coburn that Coburn never said by way of his statement that gays were a threat to America’s freedom, that they were worse than al-Qaeda, which is what my comments were in response to. To my mind, freedom and safety and not necessarily the same thing. You can be safe without being free, and you can be free without being safe. I felt the two were being conflated. It had nothing whatever to do with “justifying” Coburn’s statement. How many times am I going to have to say this? As far as I’m concerned, you’re still doing it. You’re coming up with tenuous, legalistic interpretations to what the guy said, as though it’s even material whether or not he meant to compare gay people to terrorists. Either interpretation shows the guy to be a worthless scumbag, and I don’t see why you feel that Coburn hating us but not thinking we’re quite as bad as al-Qaeda is somehow ok. Note, also, that I didn’t say anything in that post about terrorism because, again, calling us a “threat to freedom” is plenty, in my book, to hang the guy for. So if your big deal is people misinterpreting others’ posts, you need to be a little more careful yourself. Unless, of course, it only applies if the speaker is a Republican. And your continual attempts to diffuse Coburn’s statements imply that it’s ok with you to refer to gay people as a “threat to freedom” as long as he doesn’t say we’re worse than al-Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042/194 "2004-08-14T17:50:18Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, you’re still doing it. You’re coming up with tenuous, legalistic interpretations to what the guy said, as though it’s even material whether or not he meant to compare gay people to terrorists. Legalistic, my ass! I’m coming up with the exact words he said! > [@Excalibre](#): > > Either interpretation shows the guy to be a worthless scumbag, and I don’t see why you feel that Coburn hating us but not thinking we’re quite as bad as al-Qaeda is somehow ok. Two misstatements! He didn’t say gays were not quite as bad as al-Qaeda, and I didn’t say it was okay if he did. Like I said, I’m gonna start calling bullshit on this kind of crap! Cite! > [@Excalibre](#): > > And your continual attempts to diffuse Coburn’s statements imply that it’s ok with you to refer to gay people as a “threat to freedom” as long as he doesn’t say we’re worse than al-Qaeda. Are you really saying that your misinterpretation, which I’ve already admitted may have been caused by my choice of words and the inadvertant motives they seemed to allude to, is that I said Coburn’s words are okay since he doesn’t say gays are worse than al-Qaeda? If so, you’ve been told over and over and over again what I really meant, and not only by me but by the more reasonable and intelligent posters to this thread who were previously offended by what I said themselves, including the one who brought up al-Qaeda in the first place. You are simply refusing to see the point. Is this honest – in which case I’m beginning to question your intelligence – or is it just a deliberate attempt to keep a battle going in order to keep from having to admit that you yourself are wrong…as one after another of my former adversaries keep telling you? Sorry, **Miller**. It seems I can’t just let shit like this go unchallenged. But, I challenged it and as far as I’m concerned it’s now been put to bed. If Excalibre continues his line of bullshit it will only be the equivalent of a child putting his/her hands over their ears and yelling, “Lalalalala,” and who’s going to try to argue reasonably with someone doing that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swamp-thing-from-muskogee-rightard-pride-week/259042.md?page=9)