# SWAT tactics for door breach facing fire (Las Vegas killer, eg) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967 "2017-10-04T17:59:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/21 "2017-10-07T17:37:13Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I saw in Egypt, the police have these things that are basically a metal shield or wall with wheels, about 5x3 feet with a tiny window (about 2x4 inches) of very thick bulletproof glass. (IIRC, in the movie _Leon / The Professional_, the Swat team in the big finale uses some of these to approach the hotel room too. ) I don’t know how effective high powered ammo is, but I do suspect almost an inch of hardened steel will stop pretty much anything hand-held. I’ve read they are level IV, or able to stop most rifle rounds. 50 caliber rifles would shoot through a shield like that, however. If the Vegas shooter hadn’t been alone, but had a couple other shooters with him, and they’d been prepared, I think they could have held out for hours, similar to what happened with Sadaam Hussein’s sons. > **[Uday Hussein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein#Death)** > > Uday Saddam Hussein (Arabic: عدي صدام حسين; 18 June 1964 – 22 July 2003) was an Iraqi politician and the elder son of Saddam Hussein. He held numerous positions as a sports chairman, military officer and businessman, and was the head of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, Iraq Football Association, and the Fedayeen Saddam. > Uday Hussein was born in Baghdad. He was the eldest child of Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and his first wife and cousin, Sajida Talfah. Uday was seen for several years as the lik... I’m not even sure how they could have done it. It took 200 soldiers and multiple hellfire missiles fired from a helicopter to kill them in a 4 hour long battle. Vegas SWAT doesn’t have that on hand. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/22 "2017-10-07T19:27:08Z")
[Wiki “door breaching.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_breaching) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/23 "2017-10-07T19:52:08Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > It took 200 soldiers and multiple hellfire missiles fired from a helicopter to kill them in a 4 hour long battle. Vegas SWAT doesn’t have that on hand. And TOWs. Lots, and lots, and lots of TOW Missiles. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/24 "2017-10-09T23:42:30Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > … > > If there was no shooting there was no need to do anything in a hurry. The shooter was most likely dead and certainly trapped. It was possible that he was alive and waiting for a breach. Or the door was booby trapped. They had time to figure out the best way of entering without sacrificing any officers. If they reached the door and there was still shooting going on there would have been a different response. Although this trend is clearly off OP—first broached (heh) by **LSLGuy** —the timeline of events has been changed significantly. The officer in the hallway shot through the door was shot (and presumably communicated that to someone somewhere) _before_ the shooter trained his weapons outside. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/25 "2017-10-10T01:50:18Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Although this trend is clearly off OP—first broached (heh) by **LSLGuy** —the timeline of events has been changed significantly. > > The officer in the hallway shot through the door was shot (and presumably communicated that to someone somewhere) _before_ the shooter trained his weapons outside. I hadn’t heard about a new timeline but I’d like to read it. I thought the person shot through the door was a hotel security guard. I could imagine it taking slightly longer for a security guard’s report about the shooter to filter it’s way to the police than if a police officer had reported it directly over the radio. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/26 "2017-10-10T03:29:46Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > I hadn’t heard about a new timeline but I’d like to read it. I thought the person shot through the door was a hotel security guard. I could imagine it taking slightly longer for a security guard’s report about the shooter to filter it’s way to the police than if a police officer had reported it directly over the radio. Yes it was a hotel security guard. The guard was shot first then the rampage began. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/27 "2017-10-10T03:32:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > [Wiki “door breaching.”](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door_breaching) Ok? I’ve done plenty of explosive, ballistic, and mechanical breaching. My Combat Engineer unit specialized in it. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/28 "2017-10-10T16:23:43Z")
Oh, gosh, not sure how you took my post/cite…like so many of that kind, it was merely offering a place for information on a different scale than a GQ post(s) and type than your experience or expertise–which I’ve long known from here and respected. Whew! ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/29 "2017-10-10T16:36:16Z")
What if they broke the window in the room above and rappelled in? They could toss in flash bangs that way, and hang a camera over the edge. Is that a reasonable capability or is that just movie stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/30 "2018-05-03T04:13:20Z")
**Police Release Body-Camera Footage From Las Vegas Shooting** Footage shows heavily armed officers quietly assembling outside Stephen Paddock’s suite in Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino [https://www.wsj.com/articles/police-release-body-camera-footage-from-las-vegas-shooting-1525306174](https://www.wsj.com/articles/police-release-body-camera-footage-from-las-vegas-shooting-1525306174) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/31 "2018-05-04T01:48:02Z")
Just a bump: what was the breaching method used (a/the point of OP)? You can hear loud pops/explosions(?)–this is the “shooting through the door” cited upthread? Because no counter fire is going on at this point. If the cite is behind a pay wall, maybe [this](https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005879871/las-vegas-police-stephen-paddock-hotel.html) will work. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967/32 "2018-06-30T01:59:32Z")
[Body camera video](https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/footage-shows-cops-waiting-in-hallway-during-las-vegas-massacre/) of LEOs on floor below as automatic fire breaks out. Not sure if they were ordered to stand down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swat-tactics-for-door-breach-facing-fire-las-vegas-killer-eg/797967.md?page=1)