# “Swatting” - what the fuck is wrong with people **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 30, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584 "2017-12-30T18:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/21 "2017-12-30T21:12:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And what if the victim is a guy with lots of guns in the house. Since he has done nothing wrong, when a bunch of armed people show up, maybe he thinks it is a home invasion in costume and starts shooting? > This pulls cops away from somewhere they may really be needed. And it puts the lives of cops at risk, since responding at high speed is inherently dangerous. In fact, [this has happened](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting#Injuries_or_deaths_due_to_swatting): > [@](#): > > On January 15, 2015, in Sentinel, Oklahoma, Washita County dispatchers received 911 calls from someone who identified himself as Dallas Horton and told dispatchers he had placed a bomb in a local preschool. Washita County Sheriff’s Deputies and Sentinel Police Chief Louis Ross made forced entry into Horton’s residence. Ross, who was wearing a bulletproof vest, was shot several times by Horton. Further investigation revealed that the calls did not originate from the home and led Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents to believe Horton was unaware that it was law enforcement officers making entry. James Edward Holly confessed to investigators that he made the calls with two “nonfunctioning” phones because he was angry with Horton. Ross, who was shot multiple times in the chest and arm, was injured, but was treated for his injuries and released from a local hospital. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/22 "2017-12-30T21:22:22Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Considering the detail into which he went with the false 911 call, and that he apparently tried to do this before with a bomb threat in Glendale, this is at least felony reckless endangerment, and the family should file a wrongful death civil suit to get whatever little this shit bag probably has. And in 2017 the “reasonable person” standard should tell you that provoking a confrontation with police under the pretext of someone being presumed armed, IS putting lives in real danger. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/23 "2017-12-30T21:31:24Z")
Swautistic also claimed to be the guy who phoned in the bomb threat to the FCC a few weeks ago. I would think that would run afoul of federal bomb threat threats laws, but maybe I’m wrong. > **[After “swatting” death in Kansas, 25-year-old arrested in Los Angeles](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/after-swatting-death-in-kansas-25-year-old-arrested-in-los-angeles/)** > > Arrest made after man dies in Kansas “swatting.” ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/24 "2017-12-30T21:33:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Police should always proceed with the possibility that they have been given falsified or inaccurate information. The possibility of mistake should be baked into their procedures. absolutely, I’d rather ten police were killed than one innocent member of the public. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/25 "2017-12-30T21:35:56Z")
On the upside, I have no doubt this jerkoff will be scrambling to cast the blame on whoever hired him. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/26 "2017-12-30T21:41:40Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > For those not clicking on the OP’s link… > > Two people got into some sort of argument, possibly over a small bet, while playing an online game. One person made a threat. The other provided a fake address, as if challenging the first to come over and act on the threat. And idiot #1 instead made a fake emergency called claiming that a shooting had occurred at the fake address provided by idiot #2 and said there was a continuing hostage situation. A police SWAT team responded to the provided address and an innocent man, a father of two who lived at that address, was shot and killed by the police. > As a supervisor in a 911 center this was topic #1 today for my shift. It is sad, but people do try to make hoax calls of varying levels of severity. We must be suspicious if something does not seem right. And yet we must initiate emergency response as if the call is real. Just be sure to let the police know that your bullshit detector is going off and why. > > Usually the media laughs at stories of 911 abuse when someone calls 911 for some random reason such as [not liking their Chinese food](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/07/07/arrest-calling-911-bad-chinese-food/29816187/). But far more often it is not a laughing matter. In this instance it is absolutely tragic. Did “Swautistic” give an address that he knew was real, or did he really think he’d made one up? My BFF and his family live in Wichita. I’ll have to ask them what they know about it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/27 "2017-12-30T21:57:14Z")
Doesn’t the 911 dispatch center know where the call was originating from? How is it that SWAuTistic didn’t end up with the SWAT team on his own doorstep? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/28 "2017-12-30T22:09:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Unfortunately, “swatting” is not a new thing. It’s been going on for at least a decade. Several years ago, someone (or more than someone) got the home addresses of some teen stars, including (among others) Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus, and did this to them. :eek: In at least one case, the celebrity was at home when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/29 "2017-12-30T22:10:48Z")
Cell phones. A person can have a cell phone from another state but be in Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/30 "2017-12-30T22:11:09Z")
There are many crimes with devastating impact on victims that have penalties that do not come close to addressing the cost of the consequences. Punishment and penalties should be a deterrent to crime, but often aren’t enough to stop bad behavior. Like the drunk driver who got no prison time after killing a young boy. He had many offenses before, but the judge decided that since the drunk’s son had the same name as the dead boy, the drunk would be punished enough by guilt. He either felt no guilt from earlier offenses, or tried to drink it away. If someone calls 911 for the purposes of SWATing someone, there should be huge penalties. Jail time if anyone got hurt, and even if no lasting harm was done, the entire cost of the operation should be paid for by the caller. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/31 "2017-12-30T22:16:13Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Police were going off what they believed at the time to be a real call; one where the caller stated he shot & killed his father. Further, he stated he was holding his Mom & sibling at gunpoint in a closet & had supposedly poured gasoline all over the house & was prepared to light it. They thought they had a witness/participant statement as to what was going on. As \*\*JRDelirious \*\*pointed out in the [Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20693619#post20693619) thread, what if it had been a real hostage situation, and the hostage taker sent one of the hostages to answer the door? Is the expectation that the hostage would have the presence of mind to completely and accurately follow shouted police instructions? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/32 "2017-12-30T23:16:41Z")
You know, everyone’s talking about the militarization of police, but would it hurt the police to actually learn something useful from the military? Stuff like the importance of conducting reconnaissance and gathering intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/33 "2017-12-30T23:22:56Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > As \*\*JRDelirious \*\*pointed out in the [Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20693619#post20693619) thread, what if it had been a real hostage situation, and the hostage taker sent one of the hostages to answer the door? Is the expectation that the hostage would have the presence of mind to completely and accurately follow shouted police instructions? My comment was in response to > [@TriPolar](#): > > the police had no observable evidence of a crime occurring. What are they supposed to do, walk up, ring the bell, put their hands in their pockets & kick the dust on the porch & say, "Gee, Mrs. Cleaver, can you ask the Beav to come out so we can talk to him? I’m not defending the shooting - could the guy hear & understand them? Were they using a bullhorn/megaphone or just screaming commands? Were multiple cops screaming at the same time, making it hard to understand any one of them? Does the party at the door understand English? Is he hard of hearing? Had he complied with any of their commands up to that point, which means he can hear & understand them? Luckily these are still rare enough that they make headlines, which also means the first thought in the cops mind is this is a BS call & I can go in with my guard down. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/34 "2017-12-30T23:27:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know, everyone’s talking about the militarization of police, but would it hurt the police to actually learn something useful from the military? Stuff like the importance of conducting reconnaissance and gathering intelligence. If what I heard is correct, the police swat team were normal police officers that were dual hatted. Perhaps it might be better if the individual states took a page out of Englands book, and assigned the task to the National Guard for locations that can’t afford or need a full time swat team. It would entail keeping at least a platoon of guardsmen on ready alert, but between Iraq and Afganistan the military seem to have a better track record with securing a possibly armed home and hostile residents. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/35 "2017-12-30T23:40:19Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Luckily these are still rare enough that they make headlines, which also means the first thought in the cops mind is this is a BS call Luckily these are still rare enough that they make headlines, which also means the first thought in the cops mind is **not** this is a BS call One missed word. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/36 "2017-12-31T00:37:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Doesn’t the 911 dispatch center know where the call was originating from? How is it that SWAuTistic didn’t end up with the SWAT team on his own doorstep? Placing the call via VoIP and spoofing the caller ID, like telemarketers do. It would be a tough decision to delay dispatch while “running a scan” (Hollywood lingo) on a VoIP call, if such technology is even available or feasible in an emergency timeframe. I mean, if the government could realtime detect when I’m getting spammed by some asshole from India appearing to be in my area code, I imagine they’d already be doing that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/37 "2017-12-31T00:51:54Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > My comment was in response to > What are they supposed to do, walk up, ring the bell, put their hands in their pockets & kick the dust on the porch & say, "Gee, Mrs. Cleaver, can you ask the Beav to come out so we can talk to him? > > I’m not defending the shooting - could the guy hear & understand them? Were they using a bullhorn/megaphone or just screaming commands? Were multiple cops screaming at the same time, making it hard to understand any one of them? Does the party at the door understand English? Is he hard of hearing? Had he complied with any of their commands up to that point, which means he can hear & understand them? > > Luckily these are still rare enough that they make headlines, which also means the first thought in the cops mind is this is a BS call & I can go in with my guard down. It’s pretty simple. Keep themselves safe and don’t shoot anybody unless they absolutely ascertain that they are doing so to save their own lives or the lives of others. That’s it. If they have no way to do that they should just stay outside and wait. If that results in someone dying that’s really sad, but that death wound not be the fault of the police. There is nothing they should do in the name of preventing crime that results in people being injured. It is the fault of the police that someone died in this case. And no one would have died if they were following a sensible set of procedures. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/38 "2017-12-31T01:09:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Doesn’t the 911 dispatch center know where the call was originating from? How is it that SWAuTistic didn’t end up with the SWAT team on his own doorstep? According to what I’ve heard, it’s actually not that hard to spoof your location in these types of systems. And that is exactly what happened. Where the system falls down for sure is that they were still on the line with the guy at the time of the shooting. But this was not communicated to the police. Furthermore, as you say, he was holding people hostage, meaning the guy who came out showed something hinky was going on. As for the situation, my understanding is that he put his hands up, but then accidentally put them down for some reason, but then remembered that they were supposed to be up. And the quick movement was seen by one of the cops as someone possibly him pulling a gun. Note, I’m basing this on [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayJMzadccuM) by an actual lawyer. He also goes over some of the criminal charges that could be on the table. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/39 "2017-12-31T01:15:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Let’s not forget that the police killed this guy just for answering his door. He was unarmed, had no idea what was going on, and the police had no observable evidence of a crime occurring. They are just as guilty as the dipshit swatter who started this. This. The dipshit was malicious, but it’s the fault of the police that someone was killed. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > … > If the victim had better followed the cops demands this might not have happened. But I’m sure he was confused as hell. Surely there must be a protocol for cops to prevent this type of thing. So confusing. I think the police should be held to a higher standard of “don’t be twitchy” than random members of the public who may be confused, hard of hearing, or even crazy. The police are paid, and supposedly trained, to deal with high stress situations. Most random civilians aren’t. Heck, most random civilians shouldn’t qualify for the police force. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Police should always proceed with the possibility that they have been given falsified or inaccurate information. The possibility of mistake should be baked into their procedures. And the possibility that the person they are ordering around is deaf, or doesn’t speak English, or is physically unable to comply with their commands, or… This incident reflects really badly on the police department. The officers should be placed on administrative leave and retrained. The department should examine their procedures and make changes to avoid this sort of thing. Yeah, charge the asshole “informant” with something. But fixing a police department that kills random people is a higher priority. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/40 "2017-12-31T01:23:14Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > My comment was in response to > What are they supposed to do, walk up, ring the bell, put their hands in their pockets & kick the dust on the porch & say, "Gee, Mrs. Cleaver, can you ask the Beav to come out so we can talk to him? Here’s what the police should do: 1. Respond to the scene. 2. Establish a perimeter. 3. Recon the situation. 4. Evacuate any civilians. 5. Open communications with the suspect. 6. Identify themselves as police. 7. Order the suspect to surrender himself by coming out unarmed. 8. Keep the possibility of force open in case it’s necessitated by the suspect’s actions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584.md?page=3)