# “Swatting” - what the fuck is wrong with people **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 30, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584 "2017-12-30T18:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/61 "2017-12-31T05:33:37Z")
Huh? Are the secret service “treated like animals”? They are literally expected to jump in front of a bullet to protect the president. That’s an honorable job, not an “animal”. The police aren’t expected to jump in front of a bullet, but it’s absolutely their job to take risks so the rest of the public is safer. Every time they pull over a drunk driver they are risking their lives. And that’s an admirable and honorable job. I’m in favor of good pay and early retirement for doing that job. But if the police start endangering the public, they aren’t doing the job they were hired to do. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/62 "2017-12-31T06:03:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So the police are there to take a bullet for you? What makes you so special? We’re not special - THEY’RE special. Being the ones responsible for putting their lives on the line to protect the public is an honor and a privilege. You’re the one trying to take that away from them, not us. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/63 "2017-12-31T07:26:08Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > 10 Internet gamers who were swatted live on air. > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiW-BVPCbZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiW-BVPCbZk) Watching that literally turned my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/64 "2017-12-31T07:42:07Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > absolutely, I’d rather ten police were killed than one innocent member of the public. Oooooh, edgy! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/65 "2017-12-31T08:04:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I certainly don’t want the police to be killed, but it seems worse for an innocent person to die due to police action than for either a perp or a police officer to be killed. If the police are killing innocents, they are part of the problem, not part of the solution, and we shouldn’t be giving them guns and sending them out to make situations more dangerous. If there were 400 swatting incidents, then the failure rate for the police was 0.25%. Should be better, true, but let’s not make it sound like the cops are out shooting like Frank Drebbin. And we were talking about the swatter. Since you are right that accidental killings do happen, that makes the culpability of the person who made the call even greater. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/66 "2017-12-31T09:05:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A lot of the police shootings we’ve been seeing have been due to policies that have police using deadly force in situations where they are facing only hypothetical threats. First of all, every citizen is assumed by default to be armed, stupid and crazy. And a quick-draw stuntman for a Wild West show. Given these parameters, if police judge there to be a 0.1% chance the suspect will fire at them(_), they have an obligation to empty their magazines into his body. (_ - Never mind that the rattled, crazy person would probably miss with his rushed quick-draw shot anyway.) I notice that in the Wichita incident police waited until after the victim was dead to call an ambulance. This seems to be _de rigueur_ in such incidents: Make sure the victim’s family gets a $9000 ambulance bill as a Remember-Us present, but delay the call to ensure the ambulance is purposeless. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/67 "2017-12-31T09:36:00Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Did “Swautistic” give an address that he knew was real, or did he really think he’d made one up? One possible warning sign of a potential hoax call is an invalid address. Possible, but not highly likely. Most 911 call centers have some sort of Computer Aided Dispatch software which will attempt to verify if an address is real, a process dubbed geo-verification. However it is relatively easy to determine an address that will geo-verify using Google Maps or other online tools available to the general public. And many real 911 callers do not know the exact address of the emergency so call takers are accustomed to dealing with an invalid address. It is common enough that this would no raise a high supposition of a hoax call. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/68 "2017-12-31T09:56:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Doesn’t the 911 dispatch center know where the call was originating from? How is it that SWAuTistic didn’t end up with the SWAT team on his own doorstep? Many 911 centers are able to see past any faked caller ID information. Our center sees billing information that is matched to an ANI/ALI database which is updated monthly. But, as in this instance, when a caller in Los Angeles calls in an emergency to a call center in Kansas, that call is most likely routed through non-emergency lines which would show any faked address or caller ID info. It is possible to track back the call, but not instantly. And though reporting is early and there may be errors, the initial report I read is that the call was initially received at a number [at City Hall in Wichita](http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192244734.html). The person answering the call at City Hall then called 911 in Wichita (per video in linked above. about about 4:18 mark). So it appears that the 911 center in Wichita was dealing with third party information and would not have had any address information for the alleged incident other than that provided by the initial caller to the person who answered the call placed to City Hall. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/69 "2017-12-31T09:58:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/70 "2017-12-31T10:16:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > … > I notice that in the Wichita incident police waited until after the victim was dead to call an ambulance. This seems to be _de rigueur_ in such incidents: Make sure the victim’s family gets a $9000 ambulance bill as a Remember-Us present, but delay the call to ensure the ambulance is purposeless. The ambulance was already standing by nearby at the time of the shooting. Dispatching EMS to stand by is typical for high risk incidents. Also typical is that the EMS crew waits until the police confirm it is safe for the paramedics to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/71 "2017-12-31T10:46:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > So the police are there to take a bullet for you? What makes you so special? I’d rather ten cops die than one of them kill _me_ by mistake. Since I’m nothing special, it only seems fair to extend that to other innocent people, as well. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/72 "2017-12-31T10:58:44Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > If what I heard is correct, the police swat team were normal police officers that were dual hatted. Perhaps it might be better if the individual states took a page out of Englands book, and assigned the task to the National Guard for locations that can’t afford or need a full time swat team. It would entail keeping at least a platoon of guardsmen on ready alert, but between Iraq and Afganistan the military seem to have a better track record with securing a possibly armed home and hostile residents. I don’t know what book you’ve been reading, but that’s not what happens in England. A situation like this would be handled by intensively trained firearms officers. If the local police force didn’t have the necessary officers available, they’d borrow them from a neighbouring force, not the military. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/73 "2017-12-31T12:37:02Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Really. I’m so tired of “If the police show up it’ll be an unstoppable landslide of destruction because that’s what we do ha ha, and we were just doing our jobs, and we need to get home alive, even if innocent people have to die in their homes to make that happen.” Don’t forget the mandatory “He was reaching for his waistband.” There is no real reason this shooting had to happen. The first being, of course, that this was an unarmed innocent man in his own home. Let’s not forget that this shooting was simply wrong on the facts. But, as potential firearm situations go, it doesn’t get much safer for police than a squad of men wearing body armor and carrying assault rifles, vs 1 guy with a pistol on his front porch. Policing is a risky job, this was a controlled and low-risk situation. People who can’t routinely tolerate this level of risk should choose a lower risk job. It’s not brave or heroic to waste people because you’re terrified of your own shadow. I wonder how this conversation would have been going if they’d been sent in for hostage rescue and then killed the hostage. I feel like people would be on the side of the hostage for being emotionally distraught and confused. But if you’re an ordinary oblivious unarmed citizen, you’re supposed to be ready at any time, in your own home, to stave off a summary execution by instantly freezing and not reaching for your waistband. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/74 "2017-12-31T14:50:41Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If there were 400 swatting incidents, then the failure rate for the police was 0.25%. Should be better, true, but let’s not make it sound like the cops are out shooting like Frank Drebbin. > > And we were talking about the swatter. Since you are right that accidental killings do happen, that makes the culpability of the person who made the call even greater. Do you agree? If cars failed to brake 0.25% of the time we’d all be dead. (Or more realistically, we wouldn’t drive, except as a high-risk entertainment, like sky diving.) That’s way too high. And there was no excuse for the police to shoot in this case. As others have pointed out, they were at little risk. It seems to obvious to discuss that the person who made the call was in the wrong. But I don’t think he’s at fault for the death. That’s on the police. He’s at fault for wasting resources, interfering with the lives of his neighbors, and generally being a dick. He seems to be a repeat offender, too. I wonder if there’s any way to relive a person’s right to make phone calls. I doubt it, but that would be just. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/75 "2017-12-31T14:59:58Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If cars failed to brake 0.25% of the time we’d all be dead. (Or more realistically, we wouldn’t drive, except as a high-risk entertainment, like sky diving.) > > That’s way too high. And there was no excuse for the police to shoot in this case. As others have pointed out, they were at little risk. > > It seems to obvious to discuss that the person who made the call was in the wrong. But I don’t think he’s at fault for the death. That’s on the police. He’s at fault for wasting resources, interfering with the lives of his neighbors, and generally being a dick. He seems to be a repeat offender, too. I wonder if there’s any way to relive a person’s right to make phone calls. I doubt it, but that would be just. \*\*Of course \*\*he’s at fault for the death! If you yell “Fire!” in a nightclub, and cause a panic which kills someone in the stampede, you are responsible for their death. This is the same (or even more malicious) situation. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/76 "2017-12-31T15:04:19Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > \*\*Of course \*\*he’s at fault for the death! > If you yell “Fire!” in a nightclub, and cause a panic which kills someone in the stampede, you are responsible for their death. This is the same (or even more malicious) situation. What about the guy who padlocked the emergency exits? Is he responsible too? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/77 "2017-12-31T15:13:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s what the police should do: > > 1. Respond to the scene. > 2. Establish a perimeter. > 3. Recon the situation. > 4. Evacuate any civilians. > 5. Open communications with the suspect. > 6. Identify themselves as police. > 7. Order the suspect to surrender himself by coming out unarmed. > 8. Keep the possibility of force open in case it’s necessitated by the suspect’s actions. Maybe they were in the process of doing just that when the homeowner got up to see what’s going on given all the police lights outside? Even if their lights were off off (& it’s clear they were on from the one body cam footage that was [released](https://www.rt.com/usa/414609-swatting-wichita-video-call/).) There were a number of things that don’t add up, some of which doesn’t sound like it made it to the responding officers. [ul] [li]Caller stated it was a one-story house; where they responded was more than one story.[/li][li]Caller was still on the line with 911 when the person opened the door, clearly not on the phone. Yeah, there _could_ be a bluetooth involved but that should be another clue that this wasn’t the gunman, **if** they were given that information.[/li][li]Caller stated the original shooting was accidental, but then goes on to say he was holding Mom & sibling in closet @ gunpoint - why would he do this? Further, he had poured gasoline all over the house & was prepared to light it. Maybe he was “doing” these things because he was despondent over just killing his father; maybe it should have set someone’s BS meter pinging.[/li][li]The officer who fired, did he have cover behind a vehicle or neighbors house or was he standing in the middle of the street? How much danger was he really in from someone who _possibly_ was reaching for a handgun?[/li][/ul] 400 “swatting” calls a year. Do you realize how many police depts / precincts/districts/divisions w/in larger police depts there are? It’s quite possible it’s never happened in their area, especially when he’s on duty, given there are 4 shifts for every cop on the street. Maybe/hopefully, had any of this info made it to the officers on scene they would have been less on edge & reacted differently. Given how fast WPD released the 911 call & bodycam footage, they aren’t hiding. This gives me hope that there will be a through & competent investigation that will lead to changes in their response. Hopefully one which will also be shared w/ other depts. > [@Iggy](#): > > And many real 911 callers do not know the exact address of the emergency so call takers are accustomed to dealing with an invalid address. It is common enough that this would no raise a high supposition of a hoax call. As evidenced by [this](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/bodies-laying-everywhere-911-calls-capture-chaos-tragedy-after-amtrak-train-derailment/) call from the recent Amtrak crash in Washington. I don’t know that area, or their procedures, but if something happens between Exits 1 & 2 Fire/EMS responds entering at Exit 1. If it’s after Exit 2, a different Fire/EMS station responds, getting on at Exit 2. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/78 "2017-12-31T15:49:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What about the guy who padlocked the emergency exits? Is he responsible too? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/79 "2017-12-31T16:07:34Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Yep. OK, so that’s basically the cop in this analogy. He didn’t start the panic, but he made it lethal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584/80 "2017-12-31T16:13:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Huh? Are the secret service “treated like animals”? They are literally expected to jump in front of a bullet to protect the president. That’s an honorable job, not an “animal”. > > The police aren’t expected to jump in front of a bullet, but it’s absolutely their job to take risks so the rest of the public is safer. Every time they pull over a drunk driver they are risking their lives. And that’s an admirable and honorable job. > > I’m in favor of good pay and early retirement for doing that job. But if the police start endangering the public, they aren’t doing the job they were hired to do. The police sign up to take risks. One of those risks is getting shot instead of shooting an innocent person. The cops here didn’t even have to take that risk, they put themselves in danger for no reason. They saw no one with a gun, no crime occurring, they let their imaginations, fueled by fictional drama and irresponsible management take hold. The result was an innocent man killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swatting-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-people/805584.md?page=5)