# Swearing 'Before God' or on the Bible, malfeasor struck dead. Any cases? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990 "2013-01-12T20:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/1 "2013-01-12T20:39:03Z")
To expand on the title: Can anyone come up with a case (documented or anecdotal) where someone swears ‘Before God’, on the Bible (or any other holy book), or any other religious type of oath, where the person doing the swearing was seemingly struck dead (or other unpleasantness) soon thereafter, where it was either known in advance, or it was determined later, that the thing they were swearing to in the oath was bullshit? This question struck me, just now, because I saw, in the paper that arrived today, an article on my county’s legislature electing a new chairman, and there’s a picture of him in the stereotypical “raise your right hand, place your left hand on the Bible, and repeat after me” pose, being sworn in. This has always seemed bullshit to me, A) because the bible itself says: [QUOTE=The Bible, Matthew 5:34-37 King James Version (KJV)] 1. But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 2. Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 3. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 4. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. [/QUOTE] and B.1) the assumption seems to be that the person swearing is risking his immortal soul, going to hell if he lies, but B.2) anyone who lies while swearing in that manner is doing so because he _doesn’t_ believe he’s risking anything at all, so why _shouldn’t_ he lie, and it therefore proves _nothing_ at all. He _demonstrably doesn’t_ fear what you are presenting (if he’s a liar, non-liars may have different fears), and finally, B.3) ‘The Book’ _itself, specifically,_ says you shouldn’t fucking _do_ that, so you’re probably condemning your immortal soul to hell, the instant you actually _do_ that? **Mods** : I couldn’t decide whether this should be in GD or IMHO, but went with GD, because that’s where ‘witnessing’ goes, and since this _is_ primarily a _religious_ question, ‘witlessing’ might (and probably will) break out. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/2 "2013-01-12T20:48:27Z")
Everyone who has lied under oath has, or will, die. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/3 "2013-01-12T20:50:29Z")
I don’t know of any cases, but there almost have to be given that people actually do drop dead for various reasons, and surely on occasion that has to have happened on occasion after lying under oath. If fact I’d expect it to happen more often than random chance would dictate; someone lying under oath is usually going to be under stress after all. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/4 "2013-01-12T20:51:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Everyone who has lied under oath has, or will, die. It’s 100% effective! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/5 "2013-01-12T21:35:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Everyone who has lied under oath has, or will, die. Yes. That’s what’s so _interesting_ about this question. What, if anything, is _God_ gonna do about it? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/6 "2013-01-12T21:41:02Z")
I might suffer, but do not expect, a fatal heart attack today. If I do, I will accept that as evidence for Goat, er… Gop… er… God. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/7 "2013-01-13T00:37:14Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > This question struck me, just now, because I saw, in the paper that arrived today, an article on my county’s legislature electing a new chairman, and there’s a picture of him in the stereotypical “raise your right hand, place your left hand on the Bible, and repeat after me” pose, being sworn in. This has always seemed bullshit to me, > > A) because the bible itself says: > [snip] This passage is why some people say “affirm” instead of “swear.” This is one of those interesting passages that is sort of both literal and figurative. The **principle** being expressed is more important than the words illustrating the principle. For instance, take the last verse you quoted. It’s manifestly impossible to go through life saying “yes” and “no” and absolutely nothing beyond that. Rather, this is one of several passages in the Bible exhorting people to be careful what they say. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/8 "2013-01-13T03:58:17Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > For instance, take the last verse you quoted. It’s manifestly impossible to go through life saying “yes” and “no” and absolutely nothing beyond that. Rather, this is one of several passages in the Bible exhorting people to be careful what they say. Well, yes. I quoted the KJV, because it’s best known, but my own reading indicates that 37 should be better translated as "make your ‘yes’ mean yes, and your ‘no’ mean no’, and IIRC the Revised Standard Version backs me up. I _may_, in fact, be unknowingly _quoting_ that version. Or getting it entirely wrong. In fact, I just looked up [this](http://bible.cc/matthew/5-37.htm) link, and although the RSV isn’t in there, (nor is the Jerusalem Bible, which is IMHO, also a good translation) roughly half the translations support _my_ interpretation. The other half support the KJV equivocation. And the KJV _is_ just an equivocation. Which is part of my OP point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/9 "2013-01-13T04:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > This passage is why some people say “affirm” instead of “swear.” Which really doesn’t change anything. Whether you use the word “affirm” or “swear”, there’s still the expectation that using the exact specified wording prescribed makes this particular statement of yours special, and more truthful than your usual statements. Which is going against the whole point of that Bible passage: You shouldn’t swear to things because you should _always_ be telling the truth, even without an oath on it. “Solemnly affirming” is just swearing by another name. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-before-god-or-on-the-bible-malfeasor-struck-dead-any-cases/646990/10 "2013-01-14T03:01:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which really doesn’t change anything. Whether you use the word “affirm” or “swear”, there’s still the expectation that using the exact specified wording prescribed makes this particular statement of yours special, and more truthful than your usual statements. Which is going against the whole point of that Bible passage: You shouldn’t swear to things because you should _always_ be telling the truth, even without an oath on it. “Solemnly affirming” is just swearing by another name. I don’t think you’ve got the point right. It doesn’t matter one bit if you are always truthful if no one knows that. Affirmations are about communicating with other people. The thrust of the passage seems to be that you should be so truthful that everyone knows you are truthful, and thus you don’t have to make affirmations. And this is one place where the ancient world does not line up with our own. People are not nearly as closely knit, so you can be as truthful as you like, and most people won’t know. So you make your affirmations to assure these other people that you are telling the truth. My idea for getting around this hasn’t caught on. I sometimes tell people that I just don’t lie. But then I just come off as haughty or holier-than-thou. Plus, for some reason, people are more likely to think that statement is a lie rather than think my affirmation is a lie, even though both are just as likely. So I choose to use “I promise” or “I swear” for colloquial reasons. I really don’t think most people take it as a judgement on whether or not I usually lie, just that I am emphasizing that something that seems unbelievable is really true. In other words, the judgement is of the statement, not the person making it. BTW, not lying doesn’t mean I never tell falsehoods, just that said falsehoods are not intended to deceive.