Ireland has similarly asinine licensing laws (11.30 and 12 at the weekends a legacy of the Brits) but a way more relaxed attitude to the same laws. As in the police rarely bother their arses enforcing them, and when they do it’s usually “come on lads, close up”, rather than the UK attitude “you’re all fucking nicked and you’ve lost your license, me old beauty”. Why the British police are so hot on this particular law, I have no idea, though from my external observation of the UK, it’s getting really bloody authoritarian these days, but that’s another thread entirely.
Hey ho, off to the pub in a few minutes, and then a lovely curry. Hurrah for beer and Indian food!
I’m wondering if the apparent discrepancies between U.S. and U.K. attitudes toward public drinking are connected to the issue of driving? In my sojourns to the right of the pond, I nearly always walked everywhere. Back in the States, I have usually lived in suburban or exurban settings where walking to a place to drink was pretty much out of the question.
In the 1970s and 1980s, there was a fairly strong movement to crack down on drinking and driving that has seriously reduced the amount of alcohol served at social events. As one anecdotal bit of evidence: family get-togethers at my in-laws used to involve a keg and many cases of beer. 20 years ago, we used to have to begin sending guys out for beer runs after 11:00 p.m. as the initial stock had been drained. In recent years, we have not always finished the keg. The actual culture seems (to me) to have changed.
That is not to say that no one drinks in the States. Even the presidential progeny have been noted to get schnockered.
However, I wonder if U.S. drinking habits have been tapered back due to the whole issue of drinking and driving–since nearly all of us have to drive to get home. (I realize that Australia might be more like the U.S. for driving, but you have to remember that even in the U.S. the change is relatively recent.)
I must agree with Wendell Wagner on this one. Any American bar calling itself a “pub” is doing this to be cute…as a gimmick. I’ve just returned from a year in England with several stints in Scotland and Ireland both. My liver and lungs are still in recovery.
Living in England, a day without alcohol was unheard of. A day without a visit to the pub was unlikely, and a day without cursing and cigarettes was impossible. Back in the U.S. for three months now, and I’ve only had 1 beer, 3 fags, and my swearing has diminished to an embarrassing low. Many of us just don’t drink as a social event the way Europeans do. Of course, living in the deep South may have something to do with that.
BIH Boy, we don’t consider bars/pubs to be “free houses” or “public houses” the way you do. Thus, the idea is not to be free to do as you please. To be perfectly honest, anyone heard using the c-word, the f-word, or in some places “twat” loudly enough for all to hear would be asked to leave. Try to understand, getting pissed and making an ass out of yourself is socially unacceptable in almost any establishment. It’s seen as immature, alcoholic, frat-boy behavior (a frat boy is a 20-ish year old university student who is probably living out of Mommy and Daddy’s pocket and has never worked a day in his life). I was teaching secondary school in England, and I was shocked by the number of times I saw my students come into the pub around 11ish and drag Mommy or Daddy home, stopping to let them vomit on the way. It made my Puritanical eyes twitch. Americans are expected to “outgrow” that behavior somewhere in their 20’s, if not earlier.
I’ll admit, it took me nearly 8 months to get to where I enjoyed going to the pub. I considered it an absolute bore for the longest time. I’d be okay for the first hour, but then around the third hour, I’d be bored stiff, checking my watch every ten seconds. All I could think was, “I could be getting so much done right now” or “There’s got to be something on TV more fun than this.”
It was only after I made friends with my colleagues that the pub became fun for me.
Drinking in the UK has had a history of being an escape from the hell of being a low-wage industrial worker. Pete Brown’s Man Walks into a Pub: A Sociable History of Beer goes into a lot of detail on the historical reasons why beer has been the opiate of the masses in the UK (well, that and gin). Binge drinking may be partly related to that and partly due to the even more draconian licensing hours the UK had from World War I onwards.
They probably have an electrically lit sign in the window advertising Pabst Blue Ribbon (PBR) or Schlitz.
This place is one step down from the social class of a “bar”, and is generally known as a “dive”. In this type of establishment, giving a woman a quarter to put in the jukebox is an invitation to copulation.
Once upon a time… (or before my living memory), there was an awful thing known as the “Six O’Clock Swill”. The Govt of the time (I think it was in the 50s) decided that a working man should go home to his wife and family for dinner, so get this: the pubs were closed for an hour from 6pm until 7pm. Now, it doesn’t take an Einstein to work out that workers who finish at 5 or 5:30pm are going to be rather, shall we say, enthusiastic about their beer intake before 6 o’clock. So there was a call of “last drinks, gentlemen”, and blokes would betilting their heads back and downing several pints in a few minutes, smuggling glasses of beer out in their jacket pockets, etc. Voila - “six o’clock swill”.
Now, in my lifetime, standard opening hours for pubs have been 10am - midnight (noon - 10pm Sunday). Some applied for variations, and there were a few “early openers” down by the waterfront, etc. These variations were hard to come by, and the licensing laws were strict. When I was working in a pub from 1986 - 88, we’d often have the local copper shining a torch through the windows at 12:01am to make sure we’d ceased alcohol sales and had booted the punters out.
Sometime in the 90s, the laws were liberalised and the formerly near-impossible-to-get 24 hour license was now almost a matter of simply asking for one. Market forces dictated that most pubs stuck to more or less traditional hours, and a few became “Pokie Palaces” full of slot machines, and open 24 hours. Now in a half-arsed attempt to stop problem gambling, licensed premises must turn off their slot machines for three hours every day (most choose something like 6-9am), and as that is their main source of income, they don’t bother selling booze only, so they save wages and shut up shop completely for those three hours.
You know what? You can call them anything you want, but in New Orleans you’ll find lots and lots and LOTS of bars/pubs/dives that are open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (only closing for the occasional hurricane – and sometimes not even then, certainly not for silly things like Christmas or Easter!), and where in the French Quarter and the Warehouse District drinking to excess is not only condoned but encouraged. You can get a beer in one bar and wander down the street with it in your hand to the next bar with nary a problem (unless it’s in a glass bottle, no glass allowed – but that’s okay, they give you plastic “to go” cups) and get as shitfaced drunk as you want any time day or night without anyone really noticing.
And that’s on a normal weekday.
We’ve even got some places that call themselves pubs that are dives, too, not upscale. Oh, and you can smoke and swear all you like. (You’ll hear worse language coming out of some of the stereos of passing cars most of the time.) Although I would recommend that if you call a woman a c**t, you do it with a charming Irish or Scottish accent so she overlooks your otherwise offensive language. And don’t use the n word. At all. Ever. But your weird Commonweath Lord Mayoring? Not a problem.
(And for whoever upthread asked about that, my guess is it’s rhyming slang for swearing – if you say “Lord Mayor” fast enough it kind of almost rhymes with “swear” – did I get that right?)
I think it depends on where you are. In the states there are a lot of different kinds of bars and people. In an upscale bar that calls itself an Irish pub you aren’t going to be as welcome swearing as you would be at the local dive bar where the other patrons will likely outswear you. Americans definitely swear.
As an American who lived many years abroad, I know I had many toimes when I was in the situation of having my drunken friends acting drunk and swearing inappropriately in the wrong places in Europe so it is no different there. There are places to drink and swear and places not to…it just doesn’t translate exactly. An “Irish pub” isn’t the exact same thing on both sides of the Atlantic.
I’ve always wanted to go to your city. Now I know I have to go
BTW to get things straight if you in all seriousness call a woman a cunt over here it is a very offensive thing to say. We just use cunt in a lot of other ways other that insulting a woman although I do realise it’s roots.
> And what would the bar in “cheers” be counted as? That
> looked like a pub to me.
The bar in Cheers doesn’t look like any American bar that I know of. It has regulars that have been coming to it for years, but it’s not a neighborhood bar. (There are a reasonable number of neighborhood bars in the U.S., and they come close to the feel of an Irish or British pub.) It’s too upscale in its decoration, and the regulars don’t seem to live in the neighborhood. It’s not a singles bar either. There’s no music blaring all the time, so it’s not aimed at rock or country fans. It doesn’t have any college students as regulars, so it’s not a college bar. It’s certainly not a bar just for heavy drinkers. It doesn’t have regular musical acts, so it’s not a bar with occasional performers. It’s got too much light and too much space for pretty much any bar in the U.S.
And the regulars (and the staff) are too diverse to be the regulars of any American bar that I know or. A bar where the regulars include an accountant, a postal worker, and a psychiatrist? The owner is a former major league baseball player and the bartender is a former major league coach (and yet it’s not a sports bar)? One of the waitresses is a perpetual grad student from a rich family and the other is a single mother with a bunch of children from a hardscrabble background? The new bartender is an Iowa farmboy who somehow ended up in the middle of Boston? No, it just doesn’t make any sense. Never trust American TV for being an accurate image of the U.S.
I’ve lived in Chicago for 12+ years now and have only been cut off / kicked out of a bar once in all that time (and rightly so I’m sorry to admit - I was a piss-drunk, gibbering idiot that night - I would have thrown myself out if the roles were reversed.)
From what I’ve found, a true “pub” in Chicago is one that’s owned / managed by someone from Ireland / England / Scotland. The tip-off for a fake “pub” ironically seems to be a place that actually uses the term “Pub” in their title. Chances are it’s some trendy bar that wants to appear “hip” by calling itself a “Pub”.
I think Chicago has a ‘more tolerant’ view to boozin’ than (apparently) other cities have.
Case in point:
A couple years back a girl and I went on a beer run after we had run low at a party. After buying a 12-pack we each decided to pop one open during our walk back to the party. We were walking up Broadway, in broad streetlight, with beers in hand when two cops stopped us.
Cop #1: “You can’t be walking down the street with open containers, ya know.”
Freaked out, we apologized and offered to dump the beers and remaining twelve pack in the garbage.
Cop #2: (incredulous) “You’re gonna dump the 12?! What are you, fuckin’ nuts?! Just drop the open ones and go home.”
My respect for Chicago police has waned little since.
As far as this whole “No Smoking in a Bar” policy is conerned, I think that’s ludicrous. Why can’t you have “Non-Smoking” bars alongside “Smoking” bars. Non-smokers can go to non-smoking bars if they choose and smokers can go to smoking bars if they choose. To create a blanket law that excludes a substantial portion of bar-goers from enjoying EVERY bar is ridiculous.
Another plug for Chicago bars - “The Edgewater” (Clark & Bryn Mawr) has a reserved “Non-smoking” section for its patrons - an old phone booth tucked away in a dark corner. A nice “Fuck You” to those who want to impose their will on everyone else. If you don’t like smoke, don’t go there, but don’t take away my right to choose.
They’re bringing this ruling in in Ireland next year. An Irish pub without a fug of smoke? Ridiculous.
Having said that (and I’m a smoker), it’s not about us, nor our choice - it’s about the right of the bar workers to be protected in the workplace. I see the point, and kind of agree.
Having said that, a lot of the people who work in the pubs here smoke, and are up in arms about it - especially the owners, who stand to lose a lot of money.
I only wish a compromise could have been worked out.
Yes, now that I think more about it, I do believe it all stemmed from workers in the bars bitching about the smoke.
Kind of like modern-day miners bitching about ‘black-lung’, don’t you think? (“Well, your honor, I did realize when I signed on that I would be breathing in enough coal dust to heat my double-wide for the rest of my cut-short life, but I needed the job despite the all-to-apparent risk. I’d like my 1.25 million dollars now.”)
I’m not lashing out at you jjimm, just the hypocrisy of the situation.
If I apply for a job, one of the first things I’m going to ask about is the working conditions. (I realize this may not apply to your typical third-world sweatshop, but we are talking about a BAR for God’s sake.)
If you don’t like smoke, don’t work at a bar. Case closed.
I realize there will be those that say they didn’t have any choice - working at a bar was their only alternative.
Bullshit.
A bar is pretty much the ONLY place left where you can smoke in public these days (aside from The Great Outdoors or in the Privacy of Your Own Home, and even that is now suspect).
I don’t mean to rant - I smoke but I am by no means a “Smoker’s Advocate”, I just think it’s a crock of shit to take away the one last haven that smokers have left.
<<Meet you outside for a smoke in front of my office building in the freezing cold and snow around 10:30>>
Why can’t the compromise be better air extraction systems? Some years ago one of my locals was completely refurbished. New extraction fans were fitted and it was possible for the smokers to smoke and the non-smokers to breatheJ I was told sales had increased. There was then a change of management and the new owner used to turn off the fans because he said they were noisy and draughty ( he also stopped maintenance of the system ) so the non-smokers stopped going in there again.
So you’re saying that if I, a small Emglish woman, walked into a bar in Florida, slapped my friend on the back and shouted “Get the fucking drinks in then, ya cunt!”, I would get some funny looks? My goodness.
That was my initial idea, but some people kick up about that too, so then I was thinking how about a walled-off area for smokers that staff didn’t have to enter, with an extraction system. But the Irish government wouldn’t compromise on this either, so now bar owners are investing in awnings and outdoor smoking tents - which of course are going to be where the party is every night, coz us smokers are the most interesting people.
If you said that loudly in Toronto, I suspect the immediate reaction would be for people in your vicinity to fall silent, with several mentally preparing to call 911 (police or ambulance), expecting violence to break out. They’d realise a few moments later that you were on friendly terms with your friend, and then relax.
