# Swearing in atheists **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [July 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774 "2009-07-30T14:56:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/1 "2009-07-30T14:56:54Z")
From here: [How do courts swear in atheists? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/134/how-do-courts-swear-in-atheists) Cecil said: > [@](#): > > After the witness replies, “You got it, Jack,” or whatever godless heathens say in such situations, everyone sits back and pretends that the “pains and penalties of perjury” are every bit as intimidating as the wrath of a vengeful Almighty. It’s not an ideal situation, if you want my opinion, but I suppose it’s the best the judges can do under the circumstances. I’ll put my money on the court tossing someone’s butt in jail for perjury over the idea of Big Juju In The Sky getting him in the head with a lightning bolt, any day. Cecil, it’s not the best judges can do; it’s the only thing judges can do. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/2 "2009-07-30T15:11:09Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > From here: [How do courts swear in atheists? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/134/how-do-courts-swear-in-atheists) > > Cecil said: > I’ll put my money on the court tossing someone’s butt in jail for perjury over the idea of Big Juju In The Sky getting him in the head with a lightning bolt, any day. Cecil, it’s not the best judges can do; it’s the only thing judges can do. The fear of the Almighty is hopefully not limited to what can be done to you THIS lifetime. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JohnR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@JohnR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnR)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/3 "2009-07-30T15:12:48Z")
Hi Cecil have spent some time registering to point out that in the “Good Book” there are two, that I know of, exhortations NOT to swear by God. It never ceases to amaze me that people who profess faith in an ancient and questionable tome, do not understand this word of the lord fully. Rather, they choose those parts that they believe and discard what is not in accord with their idea of religion. For those not sure of where to look for the quotes I refer to, here they are. Matthew 5:34-37 James 5:12 I am sure you will realize that I no longer take what is said in these writings as gospel. It took some time to reach, not only maturity, but the space needed to look at my belief in this travesty of religion, and make the most wonderful of discoveries, that we can all be free of superstition if we choose to let it fall from our backs. The truth is I do not recognise your description of folk like myself as “godless heathens”, nor even as an athiest. I simply cannot take seriously anybody who tells me that their brand of superstition is the only brand that will “save” them. Save from what? I died in an ambulance and saw no pearly gates or lake of fire. It really is santa claus all over again, but for grown-ups. Very sad, all that wasted time and effort placating nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/4 "2009-07-30T15:22:59Z")
> [@JohnR](#): > > The truth is I do not recognise your description of folk like myself as “godless heathens”, nor even as an athiest. I simply cannot take seriously anybody who tells me that their brand of superstition is the only brand that will “save” them… The “Godless heathens” remark was a joke, lighten up. This atheist thought it was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/5 "2009-07-30T15:29:30Z")
> [@PetW](#): > > The “Godless heathens” remark was a joke, lighten up. This atheist thought it was pretty funny. Yes, Uncle Cec often cracks jokes in dubious taste. However, he was not saying that only atheists refuse to swear an oath in court. I’s just criticise him for not making **JohnR** ’s point, that many Christians take the injunctions against swearing in both parts of the Bible (it’s in the third commandment for Protestants, and the second commandment for Catholics) seriously enough to want to just affirm in court. ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/6 "2009-07-30T15:32:17Z")
Ah, I misunderstood part of what **JohnR** was saying. But Cecil obviously wasn’t saying that everyone that “affirms” in court is an atheist, he was just answering the question, which was specifically about atheists. ---
**Author:** ![JohnR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@JohnR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnR)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/7 "2009-07-30T15:49:43Z")
What grieves me most are the epithets to describe anyone unable to follow arrant nonsense. If I do not believe in fairies, and I don’t, no one calls me a fairy denier or any other name. But because I do not believe in a spooky being in the sky I am ascribed various designations that just seem silly. No spirit no other place no “thing” called a soul inside me. And no, I don’t like athiest, because it smacks of afairiest, see above, and gives superstition a form of verification to which I will not subscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/8 "2009-07-30T16:50:15Z")
Here’s a link, by the way, to the article in question: [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/134/how-do-courts-swear-in-atheists](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/134/how-do-courts-swear-in-atheists). I’m curious about something else – at the end, Cecil says “It’s not an ideal situation, if you want my opinion, but I suppose it’s the best the judges can do under the circumstances” – is that another joke (i.e., ideally everyone should fear the wrath of god)? Or if not, what would be a better situation? I know there are a lot of jokes in the article, but for some reason that last sentence didn’t read like one to me. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/9 "2009-07-30T17:09:37Z")
Most courts now simply say “Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give in this matter is true?” Or something very similar. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/10 "2009-07-30T17:30:16Z")
Read some more of Cecil’s columns. Yes, those are jokes, that’s his shtick. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/11 "2009-07-30T17:51:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Cecil, it’s not the best judges can do; it’s the only thing judges can do. I missed this thread when I posted in the other “swearing in atheists” thread. I’m glad I’m not the only person who thought Cecil’s last sentence didn’t sound like one of his typical jokes. I also asked myself “what else could they do?”, but maybe it was just part of the joke afterall. ---
**Author:** ![Lestrade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Lestrade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lestrade)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/12 "2009-07-30T18:34:46Z")
> [@JohnR](#): > > What grieves me most are the epithets to describe anyone unable to follow arrant nonsense. If I do not believe in fairies, and I don’t, no one calls me a fairy denier or any other name. But because I do not believe in a spooky being in the sky I am ascribed various designations that just seem silly. I’m going to take that fairies crack as a sign that you’re an [Invisible Pink Unicorn](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn) (May Her Hooves Never Be Shod) denier. You do believe in the [FSM](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster), though, right? ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/13 "2009-07-30T19:14:19Z")
Given that we all believe in different gods, and some prohibit using their name in vain, why doesn’t everyone take an affirmation oath? Separation of church & state and all that. It seems to me that if the jury hears you take a funny oath, you may have automatically prejudiced some of them against you. ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/14 "2009-07-30T19:18:08Z")
As an atheist, I’m now quite eager to be sworn in for something just so I can say “You got it, Jack”. Edit: I should note that I was sworn in for Jury Duty recently (although not sworn into an actual jury, just the pool) but it was a mass swearing-in and I reeeeeeeally didn’t want to make waves in that situation. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/15 "2009-07-30T20:21:40Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > Edit: I should note that I was sworn in for Jury Duty recently (although not sworn into an actual jury, just the pool) but it was a mass swearing-in and I reeeeeeeally didn’t want to make waves in that situation. Imagine how cool, though, when you say that and two or three others say it at once. And you all share a secret smile. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/16 "2009-07-30T20:46:04Z")
**Clothahump** said: > [@](#): > > Cecil, it’s not the best judges can do; it’s the only thing judges can do. Psst, I think that’s Cecil’s joke. In other words, if the witness is a Christian, the judges can’t make God strike them down or send them to Hell or anything. If the person _believes_ he will be held accountable, that is great, but the only thing the courts can do is the same thing they do to atheists. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/17 "2009-07-31T00:31:22Z")
Since there were two threads on the same column, I’ve merged JohnR’s into the slightly earlier one started by Clothahump. bibliophage moderator CCC ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/18 "2009-07-31T01:50:33Z")
An earlier thread that may be of interest: [Should people be able to testify without being put under oath? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=474987) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/19 "2009-07-31T02:01:38Z")
An atheist can be very honest. Swearing him in is just a waste of time. Swearing in church goers does not guarantee the truth either. If either lie they can get in trouble. It is much about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![rdmiller3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@rdmiller3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rdmiller3)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774/20 "2009-07-31T08:19:41Z")
Isn’t the silly business of going up and sitting in the special chair enough? What’s the big deal about the witness stand anyway? You’re in court, so you’re not supposed to lie… but when you’re in that chair, well, you _really-really_ aren’t supposed to lie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/swearing-in-atheists/504774.md?page=2)