# Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 3, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962 "2020-04-03T14:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/281 "2020-05-28T22:14:53Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The baffling thing about COVID-19 is how clustered the cases are. Here in Canada, Quebec has more cases than the rest of the country combined, and they are mostly clustered around Montreal. > > Montreal has about 25,000 cases. That’s about the same as the entire province of Ontario. Here in Alberta, Calgary has 4800 cases, while Edmonton has had 527. The two cities are almost identical in size, and the populations are demographically similar. > > So before we condemn one country over another, we should be humble and accept that there is a lot we don’t know about the huge disparity between regions when it comes to COVID-19. I agree that there’s a lot we don’t know and that, to some extent, “luck” (or whatever you want to call it) is a factor. The virus reached certain cities and metro areas before others. Once that happened, its spread probably had to a lot with population density, the mobility of the population, and many other factors. But countries that took steps to screen travelers, implement testing and tracing early, and shut things down early generally fared well, and those that didn’t, didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/282 "2020-05-28T22:28:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Cuomo’s order to house contagious COVID-19 patients in nursing homes may be responsible for a large percentage of the 10,000 deaths in New York nursing homes. cite? I have never heard that the order was for any patient with a known current contagious infection to be forced onto a nursing home. Only that recovered patients leaving hospitals were not to be refused admission or readmission. Is there any factual evidence that any of these patients were responsible for any subsequent infections? Given the numbers of deaths in NY versus the rest of the populace, the NY nursing home deaths look pretty much normal as a proportion of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/283 "2020-05-28T22:59:58Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > cite? > > I have never heard that the order was for any patient with a known current contagious infection to be forced onto a nursing home. Only that recovered patients leaving hospitals were not to be refused admission or readmission. Is there any factual evidence that any of these patients were responsible for any subsequent infections? > > Given the numbers of deaths in NY versus the rest of the populace, the NY nursing home deaths look pretty much normal as a proportion of the population. Quote from the order: “no resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to a nursing home solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19." Also, from [this ABC News article](https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nys-cuomo-criticized-highest-nursing-home-death-toll-70596950), it sounds like the order was followed and aick patients WERE sent into nursing homes: > [@](#): > > “A number of nursing homes have felt constrained by the order and admitted hospital discharged patients without knowing what their COVID status was,” said Chris Laxton, executive director of the Society for Post-Acute and Long-Term Care Medicine. “This order made an already difficult situation almost impossible.” > > The order, similar to one in neighboring New Jersey, was intended to help free up hospital beds for the sickest patients as cases surged. But critics have suggested nursing homes were already overwhelmed and a better solution might have been sending them to the virtually empty Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, which was retrofitted to treat COVID-19 patients, or an even less utilized Navy hospital ship that has since left Manhattan. > > As the virus was racing through his nursing home, the head of Brooklyn’s Cobble Hill Health Center frantically emailed state health officials April 9 asking just that. > > "Is there a way for us to send our suspected covid cases to the Javitz center or the ship?” Donny Tuchman wrote. > > Tuchman said he was denied permission. Eventually, more than 50 residents at his home would die. > > Added the lawmaker Kim: “We could have figured out how to isolate these folks. We failed to do that.” Cuomo also said that since nursing homes were private, the state had no obligation to provide PPE to them, while they were sorely lacking. New York also delayed testing in nursing homes, whereas Florida and other states set up crash programs to test and handle nursing home patients using the National Guard. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/284 "2020-05-29T00:49:16Z")
That certainly isn’t a good look. Hiding behind state obligations is the province of very poor leadership. Especially in these times. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/285 "2020-05-29T00:56:59Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Sydney is bigger than Los Angeles. Horribly misleading statistic. From wiki: > [@https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney](#): > > As of June 2019, Sydney’s estimated metropolitan population was 5,312,163[11] and is home to approximately 65% of the state’s population.[12] and > [@https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los\_Angeles\_metropolitan\_area](#): > > The metropolitan area is defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), consisting of Los Angeles and Orange counties, a metropolitan statistical area used for statistical purposes by the United States Census Bureau and other agencies.[3] Its land area is 4,850 sq. mi (12,562 km2) and its estimated 2016 population was 13,310,447 (a 3.75 percent increase over the official 2010 US Census population of 12,828,837). Lastly, it doesn’t make the list of the world’s [25 largest cites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities#Largest_cities) which cut off at 5 million. I’ve never been to Australia, but I’ve stayed in Orange County before and it’s a huge place. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/286 "2020-05-29T01:10:47Z")
It comes down to how you define a city. When two cities, or a large city and it surrounds merge it gets weird. My point was to point out that claiming special dispensations for large cities isn’t reasonable. We can quickly find a point in the list of US cities where all remaining cities are smaller than the main 5 Australian cities. In the context of discussing Sweden they will have a very hard time justifying things based upon city populations in comparison. Comparing to LA was bit over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/287 "2020-05-29T07:59:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So before we condemn one country over another, we should be humble and accept that there is a lot we don’t know about the huge disparity between regions when it comes to COVID-19. OK, no condemning here. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So maybe the best question to ask is, ‘What is different about New York?’ High population density and reliance on crowded subways might be part of it. Cuomo’s order to house contagious COVID-19 patients in nursing homes may be responsible for a large percentage of the 10,000 deaths in New York nursing homes. De Blasio telling people to get out in the streets and party in March could not have helped. What is different about Sweden? They didn’t lock down. As of last week, they had the highest per capita death rate of any country in the world. Sweden has roughly the same land mass as California with 1/4 of the population. 40% of its workers already telecommute. They have a very high population of people who live by themselves. They are a demographically young society. Their culture is similar to their neighbors, Denmark, Norway and Finland. Most of those factors would give them an advantage over the coronavirus. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/288 "2020-05-29T12:21:35Z")
Why did Japan do well? Guess because they didn’t lock down. That’s the only factor to consider, right? How much of a lockdown happened? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/289 "2020-05-29T12:46:48Z")
Is there any website that does daily or weekly stats for countries where you can sort according to pandemic management measures? At the very least I would like to see all countries arrayed on a string with harsh early lock-down at one end [New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam etc] and bugger-all or deferred measures [USA USA, Brazil and so on] towards the other. Ideally being able to sort by other measures as well - social support net to prevent people being forced to work when sick, testing regime etc would be very useful as well. I suspect - no I’'ll go stronger - I predict, that population density as discussed above will prove to be fairly irrelevant, compared to rapidity of lock-down, the degree of mass testing and contact tracing , political determination in minimising fatalities, and probably in eventual effective opening up. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/290 "2020-05-29T13:03:20Z")
Well, I guess eventually someone’s going to make an accurate prediction about this disease. Why not you? Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/291 "2020-05-29T13:33:25Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why did Japan do well? Guess because they didn’t lock down. That’s the only factor to consider, right? How much of a lockdown happened? [channeling my Inner CarnalK]Who said anything about the “only factor to consider”? What does Japan have to do with Sweden?[/ICK] [Masks helped keep Japan’s COVID-19 death toll low, says expert panel](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/28/national/science-health/masks-helped-fight-coronavirus) Japan has a history of mask wearing, along with general hygiene awareness. They also conducted contact tracing very early, have a homogeneous population, have built-in cultural distancing including not shaking hands. > [@](#): > > There’s strong awareness of public hygiene, starting with the habit of washing our hands. And, due to historical experiences, there is widespread knowledge about preventing infections. > > Another social factor is that Japanese people feel comfortable wearing masks on a daily basis. Many people are allergic to pollen, so they do this during the cedar pollen season from the beginning of the year until spring, as well as to protect against influenza. > > What lessons have you learned for preventing a second wave? > > Cluster surveillance has enabled us to ascertain what situations and places present a high risk. We have found out that wearing masks, hand hygiene, physical distancing and avoiding talking loudly are effective in preventing transmission. > > A second wave is very possible, so we need to detect clusters faster than before. We also need to use the antigen testing we have developed, alongside PCR testing, to find cases before symptoms become serious. Sweden did none of these things except some voluntary social distancing, disallowing crowds larger than 50 people and canceling secondary education. [This](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-sweden-was-dragging-its-heels-so-i-created-the-monster-to-save-us-r89lnp3lz) is an article from about a month ago. (I didn’t post it because it’s paywalled. But this part sticks with me.) The Swedes hired some Chinese people to help them with the coronavirus. The cultural clash between the Chinese researchers and the Swedes was stark in terms of mask wearing and PPE. > [@](#): > > In an airy, spacious Stockholm laboratory, four young Chinese technicians looked apprehensive as they huddled around a genome-sequencing machine nicknamed “the Monster”. > > They had been flown in from Shenzhen to help Swedish researchers ramp up testing for the coronavirus — but had been shocked by what they found. > > Unlike many Swedes, who have taken a relatively relaxed approach to the virus, the technicians wore masks and protective equipment both inside the lab and in Stockholm’s streets. On the other side of the glass from them — his face bare — stood Professor Lars Engstrand, 63, an expert in communicable diseases. > > “They are so afraid we’re going to infect them,” Engstrand said. “In the beginning it was Europeans who were worried about being infected I wish I could see the rest. But this part paints an ironic picture. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/292 "2020-05-29T15:11:04Z")
Why is no one asking why India, Pakistan, Burma, India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia, and every other country in that region has done so well? Is it possible they have less obese people, maybe their elder and sick stay at home with the families? Do they have a far less people hanging on as they near the end of their lives? Just maybe they would have all done fairly well without lock downs. It kind of looks like over 5 billion of the worlds population is doing very well with this virus. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/293 "2020-05-29T15:46:07Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Is there any website that does daily or weekly stats for countries where you can sort according to pandemic management measures? At the very least I would like to see all countries arrayed on a string with harsh early lock-down at one end [New Zealand, Taiwan, Vietnam etc] and bugger-all or deferred measures [USA USA, Brazil and so on] towards the other. Ideally being able to sort by other measures as well - social support net to prevent people being forced to work when sick, testing regime etc would be very useful as well. > > I suspect - no I’'ll go stronger - I predict, that population density as discussed above will prove to be fairly irrelevant, compared to rapidity of lock-down, the degree of mass testing and contact tracing , political determination in minimising fatalities, and probably in eventual effective opening up. [Coronovirus Government Response Tracker from the University of Oxford](https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/research/research-projects/coronavirus-government-response-tracker) > [@University of Oxford](#): > > Systematic information on which governments have taken which measures, and when, can help decision-makers and citizens understand the robustness of governmental responses in a consistent way, aiding efforts to fight the pandemic. The Oxford COVID-19 Government Response Tracker (OxCGRT) systematically collects information on several different common policy responses governments have taken, scores the stringency of such measures, and aggregates these scores into a common Stringency Index. > … > OxCGRT collects publicly available information on 17 indicators of government responses. Eight of the policy indicators (C1-C8) record information on containment and closure policies, such as school closures and restrictions in movement. Four of the indicators (E1-E4) record economic policies, such as income support to citizens or provision of foreign aid, and five indicators (H1-H5) record health system policies such as the COVID-19 testing regime or emergency investments into healthcare. > … > The tracker aggregates the policy scores (not the financial scores) into a common ‘Stringency Index’. Note that this index simply records the number and strictness of government policies, and should not be interpreted as ‘scoring’ the appropriateness or effectiveness of a country’s response. Methodology [here](https://github.com/OxCGRT/covid-policy-tracker/blob/master/documentation/index_methodology.md). And here’s a [working paper](https://www.bsg.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2020-05/BSG-WP-2020-032-v6.0.pdf) (pdf) discussing the findings so far. The only thing they really show is that governments adopted stricter policies as death counts rose. It’s nice to have it shown in data, I guess, but doesn’t look at the effectiveness of individual measures with respect to fighting COVID-19. Hopefully other researchers will use this data in conjunction with infection/death statistics and be able to tease out the effects of various policies. I’d guess it will be weeks, months, or more likely years before we can conclusively say what the appropriate response was. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/294 "2020-05-29T16:04:23Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Why is no one asking why India, Pakistan, Burma, India, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia, and every other country in that region has done so well? You’ve got India twice on this list. And no, it’s not “doing well”. They locked down hard (and maybe too quickly) when cases starting skyrocketing. There’s also a question about the statistics. They only count deaths in verified cases. When somebody dies, they didn’t bother testing them and they weren’t added to the statistics. Vietnam? [Locked down early](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/life-after-lockdown-vietnam-domestic-travel/index.html). Cambodia? Severely [restricted travel and business](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Cambodia) at the beginning of April. Indonesia? Disease is [becoming rampant](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/world/asia/indonesia-coronavirus-surge.html). If you are trying to make a case that maybe countries can do well without lockdowns, you picked some odd examples. Most of these examples did lock down, albeit to varying degrees, and most still had severe outbreaks even so. I mean, sure, they’re mostly doing fine compared to the US, but that’s an incredibly low bar to clear. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/295 "2020-05-29T16:19:32Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > You’ve got India twice on this list. And no, it’s not “doing well”. They locked down hard (and maybe too quickly) when cases starting skyrocketing. There’s also a question about the statistics. They only count deaths in verified cases. When somebody dies, they didn’t bother testing them and they weren’t added to the statistics. > > Vietnam? [Locked down early](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/life-after-lockdown-vietnam-domestic-travel/index.html). > > Cambodia? Severely [restricted travel and business](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Cambodia) at the beginning of April. > > Indonesia? Disease is [becoming rampant](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/28/world/asia/indonesia-coronavirus-surge.html). > > If you are trying to make a case that maybe countries can do well without lockdowns, you picked some odd examples. Most of these examples did lock down, albeit to varying degrees, and most still had severe outbreaks even so. I mean, sure, they’re mostly doing fine compared to the US, but that’s an incredibly low bar to clear. Indonesia is reporting 6 deaths per million at this time which seems to be pretty typical for the region. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/296 "2020-05-29T16:21:42Z")
I don’t think certain countries like the U.S. and Western Europe will do well under any circumstances. I think the lockdowns will slow things down but do far more damage in the long haul. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/297 "2020-05-29T16:28:27Z")
@Great Antibob Restricted travel at the beginning of April is a late start, isn’t it? Cambodia closed cinemas and clubs mid-March, basically the same as here in Ontario. NYC closed down bars and cinemas by March 17 and the state issued “shelter at home” on March 20th. Are you saying Cambodia is an example of a quick mover in the lockdown? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/298 "2020-05-29T16:32:56Z")
The same Indonesia suspected of [undercounting](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/indonesia-2200-died-coronavirus-symptoms-200428051950350.html) cases and deaths? And that still doesn’t account for India and Vietnam. Both locked down hard but at different times. India is known to have undercounted due to logistical difficulties. Vietnam did ok but acted earlier. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Are you saying Cambodia is an example of a quick mover in the lockdown? Not at all. But I am saying it’s not a great example if the argument one wants to make is that countries that don’t lock down seem to have the same or not terribly worse statistics than countries that do. It didn’t stay open, so how can one draw that particular conclusion using Cambodia as a data point vs neighbor countries? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/299 "2020-05-29T16:36:21Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The same Indonesia suspected of [undercounting](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/indonesia-2200-died-coronavirus-symptoms-200428051950350.html) cases and deaths? > > And that still doesn’t account for India and Vietnam. Both locked down hard but at different times. India is known to have undercounted due to logistical difficulties. Vietnam did ok but acted earlier. > > Not at all. > > But I am saying it’s not a great example if the argument one wants to make is that countries that don’t lock down seem to have the same or not terribly worse statistics than countries that do. It didn’t stay open, so how can one draw that particular conclusion using Cambodia as a data point vs neighbor countries? My point is that for some reason the numbers in that region are so vastly different than numbers in the western world that I don’t think any kind of comparisons are valid or useful. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/300 "2020-05-29T16:53:06Z")
[Brazil on Track to Be Most Obese in World](https://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-on-track-to-be-most-obese-in-world-2015-10). I was a bit puzzled as to why Brazil was fairing so badly in the pandemic. Article after article on how Brazil is dethroning the U.S. as the most Obese country in the world. Why is the media not doing more to highlight the dangers of obesity in this pandemic? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962.md?page=16)